Jeffries Retired Because He Was Terrified Of Being Defeated

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Dec 9, 2011.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    "The best out there as champion".

    Finnegan, Munroe, Kennedy, Griffin.:think
     
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  3. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I dont believe in downgrading the Fitz rematch as much as you, But for what it is worth, i read an article a couple of days ago where Jeffries had signed to fight Fitz in 1901 (ish). Jeffries pulled out at the very last minute because he wasnt in condition to fight. (presumably this meant he did not think he would beat Fitz). Might have been a very interesting fight if it took place. History changing perhaps.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The fact that Fitz carved Jeffries face into raw hamburger for 8 rounds until his hands went emphasises how smart he was to wait 3 years until Fitz was 1. nearly 40.2, Had been retired for 2 years.
     
  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So you think that should add to Fitz' legacy or subtract from Jeffries?

    You have to wonder why Johnson didnt at least fight a few exhibitions with a fully fit and ancient fitzsimmons.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think a champion,in his prime ,should be able to deal with a near 40 years old man who is coming out of 2 years retirement , a man whom he outweighs by 47lbs, without relying on outlasting him and stopping him after he has had the the **** beat out of him for 8 rounds.

    So yes ,I think it adds to Fitz's legacy, and detracts from Jeffries

    Johnson was sparring with Sharkey when he was a near novice ,and making Sailor Tom look foolish.
    Fitz would not fight Jackson , maybe he avoided Johnson too?
     
  8. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Do you have a source for the claim that Johnson made Sharkey look foolish? I'm not even sure Johnson made that claim in his own autobiography.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Sharkey was in training to fight Fred Russell ,Johnson was hired as a spar mate..
    This was 1901, the year Choynski kod Johnson.


    "Sharkey could not hit me,he told Spider Kelly his trainer ,to tell me to hold my head up so he could hit me and Spider said,"you're boxing him so you make him hold his head up.'"

    Johnson was relieved of his sparring duties, and relegated to preparing the food in the camp kitchen .

    Geoffrey C Ward." Unforgivable Blackness" PAGE 38.
     
  10. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes, but where is Ward's primary source? He has no citation for that quote. One of the weaknesses of that book is he has very few notations for verification of his sources. Based on what I have read from the primary sources from the time, I'm not buying it. Johnson was one of several sparring partners and Sharkey boxed several rounds nearly every day with all of them. None of the newspapers particularly mentioned anything about Johnson. If anything, they gave some plaudits to Bob Armstrong. It was very early in Johnson's development at that point. He was nowhere near what he would eventually become. He had a string of three so-so fights at that time. He lost to Choynski and drew with both Stift and Everett - the same Everett whom Sharkey decked in the 1st round (but got dq'd against because he also hit him while he was down).
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    That's your prerogative Adam.We agree Johnson was far from the fighter he became.
     
  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Frank Bruno, Gerry Cooney, Wladimir Klitschko and David Haye all KO 1 Jim Jeffries.
     
  13. apollack

    apollack Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Regarding the claim that Jeff was afraid to fight Fitzsimmons again, such is not true. I have carefully documented in my book that after Fitz KO'd Ruhlin and Sharkey, he allegedly wanted to fight Jeff again. However, Jeff was still recovering from injuries, and was not in shape. The Fitz-Sharkey II bout took place on August 24, 1900. The Horton law was scheduled to be repealed one week later, on September 1.

    Jeff, like Fitz, saw that the Horton law was coming to an end, and wanted that big New York money, so he made some effort to train, but realized he simply did not have enough time, and his left arm was still bothering him. He told Fitz he would fight him, though, somewhere other than New York, within 6 months. At first, Fitz also said that he needed a rest after those two fights, plus his hands were hurting after the Sharkey bout.

    However, realizing full well that Jeff was not prepared to fight him, Fitz then said that if they did not fight prior to the expiration of the Horton law, there would be no fight and he would retire. But the Horton law was expiring in one week. There was no way Jeff could be in shape that quickly, and Fitz knew it. Plus Fitz was a bit banged up after the Ruhlin and SHarkey bouts, and his hands were hurting him after the Sharkey bout anyhow.

    The reality is that Fitz wanted to retire after he made a couple nice paydays, and saw that the New York money would no longer be available. Plus, with his reputation booming again on the heels of those two victories, he could go on the stage again and make easy money giving exhibitions and such. No need for a Jeffries fight.

    Thereafter, it was actually Jeff who kept trying to get Fitz to come out of retirement and fight him, not the other way around. The press kept harping on Fitz to fight Jeff again. It was only when Fitz's bank account and reputation started dwindling again that he decided to come back and fight Jeff again.

    Hence, when Jeff took on Ruhlin next, the man who had KO'd Sharkey, Jeff took no heat for it, because he was the next best man available and willing to fight Jeff.
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    No claim has been made that Jeffries was afraid to fight Fitz, or any man as far as I can ascertain. However, the fact that he took three years to rematch Corbett, and two for Fitz, undoubtedly worked to his advantage did it not?

    Ruhlin ko'd the relic of Sharkey would you not agree?

    Jeffries ruined Sailor Tom imo.

    Nevertheless I think Jeffries win over Ruhlin is very meritorius, Ruhlin was inconsistant but when "on", he was a good contender, and man of near equal size to Jeffries.
    It ranks as a good win for the Boilermaker imo.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Well, Griffin beat your fantasy boy Jack Johnson in, didn't he?:deal


    The best out there while Jeffries was champion was Corbett, Sharkey, and Fitz. You could say Johnson was qualified from 1903-1905, but the Hart loss ended his title hopes. And Jeffries did return much later past his prime for the Johnson fight. Yet you quote others who said he was fearfull.


    Munore, Finnegan, and Kennnedy lasted a combined 5 rounds. You see a real champion quickly dismisses the non-world class opponents. Jeffries does not need any excuses here, but you'll tell us why Johnson who threw plenty of punches could not stop an out of shape Munore, a fighter who only won 1 of his last 8 or 9 in Ross, and had to settle for a draw vs O'Brien, and Jim Johnson. HA

    !