Jeffries Ruhlin

Are you guys telling me that a modern heavyweight like James Toney, with all his modern knowledge and training, makes a 19th century Jeffries look outdated?

https://youtu.be/7PtXc-Zumlo?t=7m49s

Jeffries looks way better to me. It's not even close. In this film, Jeffries looks like a precise stalker. Louis-esque. He's very accurate with his big punches.

 

You deliberately stacked the deck by choosing Toney...who was never supposed to fight at HW and no one who wasn't an apologist for 19th/early 20th century boxers would use him as a model for a "modern HW".

Those posters who have been honest with themselves and who don't have an agenda have been pointing out Jeffries inadequacies. Could he defeat a modern HW?
I have no doubt he'd defeat Dustin Nichols or maybe Kimbo Slice, but not a top 40 HW of today.

 

Is he not a modern heavyweight? He fought in the heavyweight division. He faced top tier opponents. Isn't the argument that Jeffries is outdated, and would never last today? But somehow James Toney doesn't count? lol

Honestly I just picked him at random, since he's passively considered as a good fighter.

 

Just a quick experiment: https://vid.me/fhrZ

Make of it what you will *shrug*


This is obviously an imperfect experiment. The Lewis footage still has way better quality. Jeffries looks way more dynamic than Lewis to me.

I don't see any mind blowing examples of modern fighters being way better. Biggs does the whole "silly 1900 fighter parrying thing". Lewis looks slow.

 

None of those had their nose broken three times, or finished up with scar tissue like a cliff, or a cauliflower ear you could hang your hat on!

 

Believe what you want to ,just don't come back on here telling us we don't appreciate or,understand the subtle nuances of boxing!

 

With some notable exceptios.

 

It's all that we have of a ring film in his prime. The film though is not clear and doesn't run at a normal speed. Many who saw Jeffries said this was not one of his better performances in spite of the 5th round stoppage.

A better film for viewing is his training and sparring session as the film is clear, and up close. Jeffries has a good defensive head movement, quick feet, and stalking skills, in addition to easily tossing his sparring partner ( a 200-pound man ) around like an adult would swing a child.

While he did not have a jab in a classical sense, those were the times. Armed with a modern trainer to take advantage of his athleticism, you'd really have something special.

Below is about 2/3 of the training video, which does not show weight or flexibility training that is just as impressive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CauVMvNspIY


But I agree. Stong / mobile / and a powerful big man with good footwork. Tough, durble, with great stamina. In other fights, Jeffries had a good right hand and a bowling ball of an uppercut.

Ruhlin was a big man for his day. 6'2", 200 pounds with a 78" reach.

 

Remove some more frames from the Lewis fight so it doesn't just look slow but it looks jittery, might give a better comparison.

 

So do you claim to understand history or to understand technical aspects?

 

I see a nice short hook to the body and he doubles it up body to head. A move I was very surprised to see. Jeff also neatly slips a right hand. Jeff looks like an incredible looking athlete in his prime. I do not believe anyone can judge speed in a film of this low of quality. - Perry

Are you disagreeing with what he said above or not? I think he broke down the film just fine.

 

The thing is with old boxers, they're limitations only really matter in terms of being outpointed by a defensive master.

Chris Byrd might be able to make him look foolish, but Arreola sure wouldn't, he's gonna wanna meet Jeffries in the middle and slug it out in terms of a fight the sport has not progressed at all.

I made the same point about Ketchel, brawl with him and you lose, but he's there to be outboxed.

Honestly take the top ten today, how many actual fighters are technically superior to James J?

Fury
Wlad
Povetkin
Wilder
Ortiz
Pulev
Stiverne
Takam
Glazkov
Joshua
Jennings

How many of those have shown ability to actually outbox someone?

Fury has just outboxed the number 1. But he has previously shown a tendency to fight inside, against Jeffries that could spell disaster.

Wlad was p4p ranked for years but now people accept him as one dimensional, if Jeffries come inside he wins, that simple.

Povetkin has shown brilliant ability and power, but froze on his big occasion. However comparison of footage between him and Jeffries favours him.

Wilder can box behind very quick hands when he is cautious of power. He shut Stiverne out. A similar approach over 12 could work here.

Ortiz and Pulev are aggressive boxers, they will fight Jeffries up close, no technical advantage there.

Stiverne outboxed Arreola but almost got stopped in the process, both times.

Takam, Glazkov, Joshua all very aggressive boxers so again no real technical advantage.

Jennings is probably the most pure boxer in the top ten.

Any aggressive boxer is gonna stand and fight and lose imo. Jeffries doesn't have a weakness in hand speed, power or durability.

He would definitely be a top five boxer today. If he can get inside Fury he might even be top 1.

 

Is there enough good film to judge?

Most modern heavies are technically superior to boxers who fought 80 or more years ago. That's a blanket statement if we are talking modern skills meaning use of the jab or combinations.

A better question is how many had a better chin, better stamina, or hit harder overall? How many were better athletes? This is the requiem for a heavyweight, and Jeffries had these three traits as good as anyone in history.

Jeffries was a skilled hooker and body puncher. He also was decent of defense, had fast feet and hands.

I don't think the top 10 today has many skilled men, but they do have a lot of big guys who can punch. That's just the way the game is going.

If Jeffries were around today, 230-235 in shape is plausible, and with a modern trainer, I see no reason why he couldn't pick things up when you consider his athletic prowess.