Jeffries V Braddock?

There’s a reason the old timers rated Jeffries as the best heavyweight ever, because he was a very special fighter, Jimmy, while great in his own right, and imo highly underrated, is outclassed by Jeff in every way possible

 

The Baer vs Braddock film reveals that Jimmy was not flat footed. He wasnt big? 6'2" isn't too shabby. And he could punch as evidenced by his knockdown of a prime Louis. Jimmy was also very durable.

 

He was tall, but he fought at Light Heavyweight for a good bit of his career. He wasn't big.

 

He was a breadliner. Once he had his belly full, he was at his optimal size.

On the Louis fight Tale of the Tape, he is listed at 6-3, 78" reach with a 44" chest.

 

I suppose it depends in which category of punchers you place Jeffries?

 

Several notches above Braddock. Jeffries had at least one knock down in all his fights outside of his 1910 comeback. Plenty of ten counts too.

 

That is a very good point about the pace. I recently watched what was billed as the complete existing footage of the Johnson-Jeffries fight. It ran all told about a half hour with footage of six or seven rounds. Enough to get a solid idea how the fight went. Most documentaries edit this film severely to make it look like there was far more punching than the full film shows. The two men would lock up and waltz back and forth across the ring with neither throwing punches for 20 to 25 seconds at a time. Rickard never stepped in to break them. They would split apart for a bit, feinting and threatening punches, and then lock up again. I can't recall any lateral movement by either at all. They just moved flat-footed either straight forward or back. There was little jabbing, only occasionally by Johnson, and I think never by Jeffries. Jeffries also never even tried a right cross although Johnson was often within range with his hands low.

I really couldn't figure out what Jeffries was trying to do. Did he think this constant clinching and pushing each other around would tire out Johnson? I really don't know how tiring this clinching would be compared to actually throwing punches. Johnson was widely superior because he could get his hands free for uppercuts and did use a straight right.

It is also a good point about Max Baer being a more formidable heavyweight than any Jeffries beat.

 

How many of them were 200lbs +heavyweights?

 

At the same time, Jeffries was much more active against Ruhlin in footage we have. I really think that old Jeffries from Johnson fight was nothing like his prime self. He was extremely unimpressive in this fight (other than durability) while he looks good in Ruhlin footage.

 

He wasn't big because of nutritional reasons. He would be bigger today.

 

The fight was held in the desert in July for 45 rounds. The heat took its toll on the fighters, a reason why the action on the slower side. No one os going to look good outdoors in the desert in July. Jeffries was trying to get in body shots. Johnson hired Jeffries old trainer Delaney before the match and was ready to block them. Some of the rounds shown were the best for action. The fight closer on the rounds show, which could be a revelation to some until about the 13th round. But why judge a man who was 35, fat and out of the ring for 6 years Jason? Suppose the only film on Ali was vs Larry Holmes. Same thing.

Had the fight taken place in California as planned under a roof, it would have been a much cooler day without the desert sun beating down.

 

For clarification purposes, you aren't saying Jeffries did not hit harder than Braddock, are you? That would be laughable.

To answer your question, the large men Jeffries fought from 195-215, lasted less time. They are Van Buskirk ( 2 rounds 203 pounds ), Jackson ( 3 rounds 195-200 ) Kennedy ( 2 rounds, likely well over 200 pounds ), Ruhlin ( 5 rounds 200 pounds ) and Munroe ( 2 rounds 215 pounds ). Several more were about 190 pounds.

I'm not sure if there is any difference between a 190-pound guy and a 205 pounds guy in terms of taking a punch.

I'd have to check to be sure, but I think Jeffries stopped these guys faster than anyone else did, which a positive example of his power.

Did you see Fury vs. Schwartz yet? Schwartz was over 240 pounds, an in his prime. He had weak punch resistance and was done for in two rounds. Fury hurt him with a jab, I think.

But hey if it's a size thing, then this should be an easy pick as Jeffries on average was about 220 pounds for his titles fight, and Jimmy Braddock a former light heavy, who in hsi prime was about 190. Maybe Braddock was at his highest weight for Louis. Braddock was out of the ring for 2 years, and came back for one last payday with 10% of all future Joe Louis purses.

 

Not really. Jeffries stopped a bunch of novices, decrepits and lightheavies. He may or may not have hit harder than Braddock but he is certainly overrated, or rather under-proved, in that department.

Van Buskirk was a 7 fight novice.
Jackson was a pathetically shot ghost of who he had been.
Kennedy was non-entity that was beaten even by Van Buskirk.
Ruhlin was a middling heavy as it was but completely ruined and damn near killed by Fitz two fights before.
Jack Munroe wasn't barely even a boxer. He was a miner and the equivalent of a tough man competitior.

This is a paltry roll from a paltry era ruled by a paltry champion.

Braddock was 6 foot 3 with a 78" reach when measured for the Louis contest. He was a big framed lad who wasn't afraid to mix it up and threw in combinations with abandon. He may have been an also-ran in his own era but it was after the metaphorical lungfish had gambled on those first steps upon terra firma as far as the sport was concerned. Such was the evolution of the sport, begun with Jeffries conqueror, Jack Johnson.

 

Lets not forget Jeffries beat the greatest puncher of the time Bob Fitzsimmons, I know Fitzsimmons was smaller than Jeff but he still could punch, Braddock would have no chance against Jeff.

 

I think he was superior to Braddock as a puncher, but I don't think he is in the very top bracket as a hitter.