Jeffries v Marciano 15rds ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rainer, Jun 11, 2019.


  1. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    First of all Jeffries best weight was around 218lbs,if we take his to joke defences,Munroe and Finnegan out of the equation ,fights for which he did not seriously train ,his average weight for a title defence was 213.5lbs

    Secondly Jeffries did not fight "top black talent he avoided his three most dangerous black challengers .Denver Ed Martin ,Sam McVey, and Jack Johnson.
    Bob Armstrong was beaten 3 times out of 3 by black Frank Childs, 2 times by stoppage ,Jeffries did not fight Childs.
    Jackson was 37 years old tubercular and alcoholic. Tom Sharkey said he was." just a wreck and that he would have been ashamed to fight him".
    Jeffries himself called Jackson ."a shell of a fighter".
    " He hadn't lost a fight in13 and a half years?" He hadn't fought for 5 and a half years! LOL
    Jeffries came back at the age of 35, 2 years younger than Jackson! He was not old, neither was he fat,tubercular or an alcoholic!
    Jackson was never "British Champion ". he wasn't even eligible to fight for it!
    He was British Empire champion, an entirely different kettle of fish!
    ps Jeffries was measured at an even 6 feet.
    Hope you learned something!
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  2. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    Marciano best opponents are:

    Jersey Joe Walcott
    Ezzard Charles
    Archie Moore
    Joe Louis
    Roland LaStarza
    Rex Layne
    Harry Matthews
    Don ****ell

    Jeffries best opponents are:

    Bob Fitzsimmons
    Jim Corbett
    Tom Sharkey
    Gus Ruhlin
    Joe Goddard
    Hank Griffin
    Peter Jackson
    Mexican Pete Everett or Bob Armstrong

    Jeffries also drew with Choynski and lost to Johnson.

    I don't see any meaningful edge in this aspect. People say that Jeffries fought only small guys but they best opponents were similar in terms of size.
     
  3. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Goddard was 40 years old ,40 in the 1890's was roughly equivalent to 30 today! Goddard had not won any of his last 3 fights ,would have 15 more and win just one of them.Jackson didnt belong inside boxing ring by then.Neither of these could be considered good wins .
    Ten months before fighting Jeffries ,Everett scaled 169lbs for a fight with Jim Williams he was described as looking fully 50lbs lighter than Jeffries.
    It's true both Jeffries and Marciano defended their titles against small heavies,but there are some important differences.
    Jeffries weight advantage in title fights
    Finnegan=25lbs
    Sharkey =27lbs
    Fitzsimmons=39lbs
    Corbett=30lbs
    Griffin = 40lbs*Exhibition whilst Jeffries was champ
    Ruhlin=18lbs
    Fitzsimmons = 47lbs
    Corbett =27lbs
    Munroe =9lbs

    Marciano never enjoyed anywhere near that advantage in any fight.
    Marciano's weight advantages in title fights .
    A quarter of a pound over Lastarza.
    A quarter of a pound over Moore.
    He conceded weight in all his other title fights.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
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  4. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    Goddard beat prime Maher just after Jeffries fight. He wasn't at his best anymore, but he was still very good fighter.
     
  5. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If he was still a very good fighter at 40 years old how come he lost 14 of his next 15 fights? That just does not add up!
    NB Goddard beat Maher by use of an illegal backhanded blow, a couple of months later Maher beat the **** out of him.

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    Goddard, totally whipped and battered to his knees, threw up his hands in the eighth round to quit and the referee awarded the fight to Maher. The Irishman collapsed in his own corner when the fight was over.
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    Goddard slipped a lead and landed a back-hander to the right side of Maher's face. The Australian seemed to have more than a few pounds on Maher.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  6. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    Because Marciano was much smaller than Jeffries. Rocky weighed around the same as Corbett and Sharkey. He weighed less than Ruhlin, Goddard and Jackson.
     
  7. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    He lost his last 11 of 15 fights, not 14. He has draws against Armstrong and Klondike. Besides, he fought the best fighters in the world when he was past his prime. He put up a decent effort against Sharkey before Jeffries fight and he beat Dooley just a year before.

    It's possible that the loss against Maher destroyed him. Maher was very powerful hitter and he didn't knock him out early. He scored a TKO in the 8th round which means that he took a lot of punishment. I don't know, but I wouldn't call Goddard who fought Jeffries nobody, it's still a good win for a young fighter.
     
  8. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm aware of that and it should be taken into account when assessing their respective best wins ,don't you think?
    Ruhlin at199.5 lbs is the best big guy Jeffries beat.
     
  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    No, I don't. It's a HW division, back then you could fight at HW with any weight. Jeffries and Rocky beat the best fighters available and these guys were roughly the same size. Jeffries would be the biggest decent fighter in Rocky's career, for Jeffries Rocky's size wouldn't be unusual. That's my point, I don't get why you keep repeating Jeffries weight advantage in this thread. He would have just as large weight advantage against Rocky!

    By your logic, beating Corbett, Fitz and Sharkey would be better wins for Rocky than Jeffries because he was smaller.
     
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  10. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You're right, he only lost 11 of those 14 but he didn't win any of them either did he?
    I didnt say he was a nobody, I said at 40 he was clearly past his best and he was! Winning only one of his next15 fights ,and that with an illegal blow emphatically shows this to be the case. Nine months after the Jeffries fight Goddard was held to a draw by 5-7-1 Jack McCormick who had been ko'd in his previous 2 fights.After the Jeffries fight Goddard was getting beat up and fouling out to save himself from being stopped. Given these facts he can't be considered as one of Jeffries best wins imo, which is what you stated.
     
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  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cincinnati Cobra Full Member

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  12. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No Jeffries did NOT beat the best fighters available,he beat the best WHITE fighters available, and after Fitz kod both Sharkey and Ruhlin the two leading contenders in the space of two weeks, Jeffries made Fitz wait a further 2 years before defending against him .
    Marciano fought ALL deserving challengers Jeffries did not.Important difference.
     
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  13. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond You're not going to do it for free Full Member

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    Rocky in a one sided pounding.
    Jefferies was tough, but very open, and Rocky would do what Jack Sharkey didn't.
     
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  14. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Given that Sharkey went a total of 45 rounds in 2 fights with Jeffries whilst weighing about the same as Marciano,you at least have to give Rocky an excellent chance of lasting the distance . Sharkey was ruined by Fitzsimmons early in their 2 fights but Jeffries couldn't stop him in either of their fights.
     
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  15. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Active Member Full Member

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    You can blame Jeffries for retiring too early, but he beat the best contenders available. Johnson wasn't close to the consensus number one contender before Hart fight. He was legit one to consider, but far from the clear best. Denver Martin wasn't better than Ruhlin or Sharkey. Sam McVea was a novice, why should Jeffries defend against him?

    It's like saying that Rocky should have fought Valdes and Patterson. They would be good defenses but they weren't clear contenders.
     
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