Jeffries v Quarry

Fair enough.

Off boxrec, we know Childs could make 165 in 1898, and once had a listed weight of 173.

In fairness, I think Sharkey is clearly at least 10 to 20 lbs heavier. His one listed weight against Jeffries is 183, more than Charles and Patterson weighed when they first won the title, and only one pound less than Marciano.

Fitz and Choynski are in the same ballpark size wise, but I think they were better fighters and contenders.

**on the colored championship thing--If boxrec is correct, I don't think Childs had any real claim to the title until 1901, which would after all be a year after the Corbett fight.

Just looking at the records, it appears to me that Martin, with his wins over Griffin, Armstrong, and Childs is the first to really establish a claim as the colored champion.

 

Quarry lost badly to the better men he fought--Ali, Frazier, and Norton.

For all the talk of how green he was for Machen, he had 20 fights under his belt after an extensive amateur career.

Machen was within a day of his 34th birthday, and his record coming in over the last two years

Floyd Patterson--L 12
Ernie Terrell--L 15
Elmer Rush--D 10
Karl Mildenberger--L 10
Manuel Ramos--L 10
Joey Orbillo--SD 10

and then Quarry--UD 10

And Quarry fought his share of small ones w/o looking all that good.

2-3-1966 Eddie Land 175 lbs W 8

5-2-1966 Al Jones 178 lbs W 10

Folks would jump all over Jeffries for these type of performances.

As for the big wins--Foster had a built up record of ko'ing way over the hills guys like Folley and Williams. If Quarry was green against Machen, why wasn't Lyle against Quarry? He had fewer fights. Shavers might be viewed as impressive, but he had also been ko'd by Ron Stander.

Quarry failed against all the top men and some of the second-tier fellows. He lost to Machen and Ellis who were NOT bigger than anyone Jeffries defeated.

Even with the 65 years or progress, I think Jeffries is the better bet to win this.

 

"Jeffries 230 lbs v Choynski 165 lbs"

The main point is true--Choynski was the modern equivalent of a super-middleweight and much smaller than Jeffries.

That said, most SF papers had Jeff about 210-215 for this fight and others like the one with Ruhlin during this era. Hard to believe Jeff put on 20 lbs to fight the light and fast Choynski. The gap was probably 45 to 50 lbs, notable less because Jeff was big (nothing wrong with that in a heavyweight) than that Choynski was so small.

"Quarry also dropped many big guys"

I checked with boxrec on his actual performances

200 or more pounds

31 wins---6 losses---4 draws 20 ko's

less than 200 pounds

22 wins---3 losses---1 draw 12 ko's

**Quarry actually has a slightly higher ko ratio against over 200 lb guys, a trend which almost always holds up with this old fighters. Big men were NOT harder to ko.

***all 6 of Quarry's above 200 lb losses were by stoppage.

****all 3 of Quarry's below 200 lb losses were by decision

the sub-200 lb fights tend to be early in his career, the above 200 lb fights later in his career.

Against top men below 200 lbs--Patterson, Machen, Ellis--Quarry went 1-2-1

the win (over Patterson) and the draw (with Patterson) were controversial.