"Jeffries was crude but Johnson could compete today..."

More as time goes by, the less I think of Johnson's abilities. What I see on film is hardly the stories you grow up hearing. I was thinking, before seeing my first Johnson fight film, that this was Muhammad Ali before Ali ever existed----what I saw was a hulking black man, constantly talking, constantly clinching, and blocking blows with his gloves. I saw no fancy foot work, I saw no speed, I saw no great volume of punches. What I saw was a black John Ruiz. Clinch, talk ****, clinch, clinch, right cross, clinch.

 

An astute, well-thought series of observations. Otherwise known as heresy in these partsl

 

This is what I see, though to be fair Johnson had a top notch uppercut, and fast hands. But this alleged vaunted defense is something I fail to see for the most part. Was Johnson like the 1970's Ali? In the sense that both liked to clinch a lot, yes.

 

Johnson on film when he boxes on the outside he looks terrible IMO. However on the inside he is awesome.

I think that Johnson was a fighter who completly mastered his ruleset of the time.

good point about the jab

 

Thank you. This is what I have been saying for years. Johnson was at his best up close. From a distance he could be hit. All you need to know is most of the 20 rounds of Moran vs. Johnson is out there. From a distance its mostly Moran. Up close, its mostly Johnson.

 

Joe Jeanette said ,if you stayed at distance "Jack poked your head off with his left,,get in close and he ripped you with uppercuts."

 

O'Brien, who was a small light heavy out jabbed Johnson from the outside.

 

If this is correct,and reports are conflicting.
Its curious that Jeanette who, I guess most everyone would pick to beat
O Brien ,could not do so.Jeanette was known as a very scientific boxer ,and was quite a bit heavier and sturdier than OBrien ,who was twice kod by Ketchel.
Burns was the proven master of O Brien ,yet he was a child in Johnson's hands.

 

Well reports from the time obviously carry alot of weight but what i have seen of Johnson is that he was a terrible out fighter

 

I would not necessarily. O'Brien was highly skilled and Jeanette learned on the job, very crude by all accounts early in his career.

 

I have never heard Jeanette referred to as crude ,at any stage of his career.
He appears to have had science and power,with 68 kos in 81 wins ,and only being stopped twice ,in his third fight by Black Bill and when 37 years old ,by Langford.
MY money would be on Joe.

 

He began boxing in his mid to late-20's, didn't he? He learned as by being thrown in the fire. He was tough as nails and smart and from remarks made by Langford and Johnson, these were the attributes that made him formidable. This is all from memory but I don't think I am making this up.

O'Brien wasn't supposed to contend with Johnson either. I think selling him short is a mistake. That said, if the fight is scheduled beyond 15 rounds, I think Jeanette is the easy favorite.

 

There are many versions of the O Brien/ Johnson NO DECISION 6 rounder.
They did not like each other,and Johnson insisted contracts be signed in the black quarter,photos were taken and neither party addressed the other.
Most agreed Johnson would have been given the decision, IF one had been rendered,but by how much was a big bone of contention.
It is a fact Johnson was carousing till the early hours the night before.Well, that's his fault you may say ,and of course you would be right, but given that O Brien had to ko Johnson to win ,Jack was not remotely motivated for the 6 rounder.
He never concerned himself with giving value for money.
The crowd booed both men lustily,O Brien for running away ,and Johnson for doing jack ****.
The only punishment inflicted was on the paying customers.
I would not place any great reliance on how this no dec panned out,.as a pointer to how a real fight between them would have gone.
No doubt you will say another excuse for Johnson.
And ,if truth be told, he brought a lot of his hassles on himself,he was a lazy fighter ,and seldom went all out, but then he seldom had to.