Jeffries Weighed 235lbs 19th Oct 1909

I'm not bothered whether he was a shell or not; he had a year's worth of preparation and the onus is on him to come in the best possible shape. By all accounts he wasn't punch drunk and was still in control of his faculties. A year's training should have seen him get into brilliant shape and throw in a handful of exhibition fights, or hell an actual elimination (ali had to go through elimination fights before facing joe) fight against a top contender to prove his mettle or allow another top contender to arrive for johnson to face.

Compare james with ali for a second here. Both stopped in their prime as champion (ali was forced but the comparison still stands). Ali fought in 67 then against joe 4 years later. Another fotc with roughly the same gap between defence and challenge. The difference is ali fought two contender between, earnt his shot and the fight is considered joe's finest hour.

James could very well have fought two top 5 types in the year before challenging johnson. His decision not to should not detract from jack's victory at all imo. As I say, james was in control of his own figure and fighting shape.

The scale of the event just cannot be denied and no matter what people make of james that day, this was a must see fight that rightfully completed johnson's legacy.

 

For me, it's not so much the exact weight Jeffries had to lose, but that he was barely escaping novice-level when he retired the first time, and 5 years off sitting in his LA saloon with no warm-up fights, there was no way Jeffries was coming back anywhere near his peak.

By the by, was there ever a call for Johnson to rematch Hart?

 

From what I can gather, the reason hart emerged victorious is because the referee favoured aggression over clean effective punching. I've no doubt hart fought with heart and volume, but so did chavez against whittaker and I know who I score that fight in favour of.

 

Not a win on the level of a 'FOTC' though IMO. More of Tyson-Holmes.

 

Nowhere close to the first, and not quite the latter. Jeffries was nothing but a name. Gunboat Smith and Stanley Ketchel both knew this. Smith claims the only way Jeff would take on Johnson was if the fix was in, which it was when the fight was scheduled for San Francisco. When it moved to Reno, Johnson said all agreements were off. Having seen Jeffries in training, Ketchel said he would KO him during the ring intro's to save the white race the indignity of having Johnson do it.

Jeffries was beyond shot. This takes nothing away from Johnson. He came in and did his job. In comparison to Holmes, Larry proved his worth coming back a few years after Tyson to have a run of it in the 90's. After Johnson, Jeffries just got fat as a hog.

 

Those sweet old timers, so sympathetic. :yep

That's actually one thing I like about Holmes. He was still tremendously arrogant and carrying that chip on his shoulder. You just knew he was always going to fight until the end. Even if only because he thought he deserved all the winnings and the opponent didn't. You don't try to steal Larry's lunch money. :twisted:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m861f99Nkvk[/ame]

 

The Ali medical conditions were never confirmed .. lot's of rumors but he was sanctioned to fight. He had been far more active than Jeffries having gone a fast 15 rounds over Spinks eighteen months earlier ... we also have no confirmation over what Jeffries may have been suffering from although he claimed he was not well himself. It is a very fair analogy. Neither man was properly prepared and neither had any shot at vicotry.

 

Well, back in 1910, Jim Jeff was in great shape for a 35 year old man working on a farm come July 4th.... But, okay, he was aged, slowed and rusty as all hell in terms of being a ringer when he faced Jack Johnson in Reno..... However, overall at 226 / 227 pounds, he was physically fit as a human being, just not as an elite ringer in 1910......

MR.BILL:hat

 

Consider the fact that Jeffries retired as he was coming into his own at the age of 29, having learned on the job as a boxer, with his immense physical advantages previously compensating for his lack of skill. Then, sit him on his ass for 5 years, aging all the while, drinking a bit, not sparring, not taking punches... Then, he has a very sub-par training camp with his shitty brother as main sparring partner, no warm-up bouts, convinced he has a fix in the bag... and off to fight on the level one of the truly great champs who is active, peaked and the perfect foil to his style...

Did he really have a chance?

 

Jeff had a punchers chance and he did go damn near 15 full rds in the heat with Johnson................ That's a lot better than what " Schmeling, Walcott, Liston and Seldon" did back in 1938, 1953, 1965 and 1996.....

MR.BILL

 

Bill, what real heavyweight of note did Jeff ever take out with one punch? For all his size, he was an attrition puncher... And a defensive whiz like JJ want going to let that old slow bear attit on him.

And as far as 15 rounds, JJ was no powerpuncher himself. And being in shape has only paasing relevance to being in fighting shape.

 

I'm just saying Jeff made a gallant effort back in 1910....... For being out for 5 years and ballooning up like a whale, he was in great farming shape at 226 pounds come July 4, 1910 in Reno..... Of course he was out-classed by Johnson, but Jeff was game.....

MR.BILL:hat