Jerry Quarry deserves to be ranked higher than Ken Norton in an atg list

Fair play but I've heard the racism claim from a few sources, maybe it just gets repeated allot

 

Yes, Young has a case to be above Norton and Quarry if you want to look at fights he has a case to have wins in he has Ali, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, Norton :yikes I'd put Norton over him though but think I'd put him over Quarry

 

Jerry Quarry:

Dropped Patterson in both their bouts, and clearly would have taken both on the ten point must system, having decked Floyd twice in their draw. In Patterson's very next bout, he was arguably robbed of the WBA Title against Ellis in Stockholm by referee Harold Valan. (I had Floyd the winner.)

Thad Spencer was favored to succeed Ali to the WBA Title when Jerry completely dominated him over 12 rounds in their semifinal. Anybody who's seen JQ-Patterson I & II and Spencer-Terrell can appreciate what a tremendous performance this was by JQ. Jerry's best showing on known footage.

No footage of what Jerry did to Mathis has come to light, but what Buster did to Chuvalo immediately prior is available for viewing. Jerry dropped him in round two, and some observers believed that he shut out the very best version of Mathis to ever step foot in the ring over 12 rounds of action, punching Buster into a nearly three year retirement, and forever out of contention. Frazier deserves enormous credit for beating this version of Jerry as he did in June 1969, and I consider Joe to be a top five ATG HW at the time.

Mac Foster was 24-0 with 24 knockouts, and fought a superb fight when he took on Jerry, forcing JQ to come from way back for the win. Nobody else ever stopped or floored Mac, who would take a single round to destroy and retire a still highly competent Folley in his next bout.

Veteran British southpaw Jack Bodell was riding a career high when Jerry destroyed him in 64 seconds with the definitive one punch knockout of his career, leaving Bodell's remains for Urtain and McAlinden to scavenge.

Rising 6'4" contender Larry Middleton was 21-1-1 (including a decision over Bugner and knockout of Danny Mac) when Jerry outpointed him in London, snapping a 19 fight winning streak by Larry. Middleton never recovered, going 3-8-1 for the remainder of his career.

Lyle was undefeated and being profiled by 60 Minutes when Jerry, again intended as the sacrificial lamb, undermined the story with his unexpected win.

What Jerry did to a 28 year old Shavers in December 1973 was monstrous. Earnie was fresh off his stunning knockout of Ellis. Since Stander had outlasted an inexperienced Shavers in May 1970, Earnie had racked up 33 knockouts in 34 consecutive wins, with recently deposed veteran WBA LHW Champ Vincente Rondon the only one to last the ten round limit. (How Bob Foster and Lyle could immediately precede this by taking Rondon out in two is one of the weirder mysteries of the 1970s. I'd be inclined to chalk it up to superior skill on the part of those who were able to take Rondon out, like Briscoe and Conteh.)

Frazier and Futch had to be at their very smartest to dominate Jerry again and permanently take him out of contention. By far the best post FOTC win of Smoke's career. By the time Norton came along, Jerry had packed on ten pounds of flab from what he weighed for the Frazier rematch.

A very unfortunate cut ruined Jerry's potential to defeat Ali in 1970. In their rematch, Bob Foster helped psyche him out for Muhammad by nearly decapitating his kid brother before his eyes. (What might have happened if Jerry had been inspired by Mike somehow upsetting Bob?) Then, Jerry found himself squaring off with the best version of Ali seen since 1967, losing to a performance Muhammad would not surpass until 1974.

He had no business defeating Zanon, aiming for redemption after his nationally televised loss to Norton. Losing all eight completed rounds, he pulled one final rabbit out of his hat, then retired again, and should have stayed retired. Incredibly, this was his only win over an opponent of any consequence after Jerry turned 30.

Ken Norton:

One powerful case can be made on the basis of his trilogy with Ali alone, and largely has to be. Even if Muhammad's jaw had not been fractured in San Diego, these two were going to be facing a grueling trilogy which Jerry never could have pushed Muhammad to. I believe Jerry would have dethroned Foreman in 1973 or 1974, but I'm not so delusional as to suggest he could have successfully defended it against Ali. Ken may well have succeeded in retaining the world title against a challenge from Muhammad, if only there was another champion he could have dethroned first. Styles make fights, and I think Jerry was infinitely better suited for tackling Big George.

Somewhat overlooked is Ken's biggest win prior to Ali, the televised stoppage of Henry Clark, who was then 27. Beating Clark was hardly unprecedented, but Norton would be the only man aside from Liston and Shavers to ever halt him prior to the final bell. Henry would go on to shockingly starch Merritt in a rematch, then beat Tiger Williams and Mac Foster. He would not lose again until Earnie took a decision in 1976.

Zanon and Bobick had the longest winning streaks of any opponents Norton ever stopped. However, some of his biggest wins, over Ali, Young, and Cobb, were by split decision.

 

I believe in my list I have norton top 30, unsure of the exact ranking but it could be as high as 25, i'd have to check.

Quarry is a bit further down, the thing is once you get outside the 20 the rest of the very good heavyweights are all close to each other. He could be as low as 50 on my list but that isn't to say I rate him a lot worse than norton, at that level there isn't much separating each other, to put into context i'm talking the baer, braddock, johanneson region of fighters. Not great, but still very good.

 

Norton, no question. All Quarry's victories over contenders still don't add up to Norton's success with Ali. A couple of blind judges aside, and Norton would be knocking on the top 10 or at least top 15's door.

And I'm a little tired of people denigrating Norton's victory over Quarry. Jerry wasn't too far removed from his Lyle and Shavers victories, and Ken hardly missed a punch, in fact beat the hell out of him.

 

The Quarry that fought Norton was in no way the same fighter who Ko'd Shavers in 1, Dominated Lyle and Ko'd Mac Foster and Thad Spencer

Quarry never had an excuse for a lose but he said he prostituted himself in this fight, he did not train for Norton and was using drugs at the time....Quarry still managed to stagger Norton and the REF interrupted before Quarry could see how bad Ken got rocked.

As far as rating them, Norton fought even or better with Ali and had a close one with Holmes but failed against the punchers, Shavers,Foreman,Cooney

Quarry did poorly vs Ali but was a giant killer vs the slow,big murder row black heavyweights of the 70's

I think Quarry in his prime KO's Ken Norton but to rate them in an ATG sense its close because they had different strengths and weaknesses

 

Sorry, but Ali dominated Quarry twice. Norton gave Ali hell three times. Head to head Norton dominated Quarry. Gives the edge to Norton.

 

Well Shavers KO'd Norton in 1, Quarry KO'd Shavers in 1...Ali and Holmes did not have enough smack to crack that famous Norton chin but most punchers did...Quarry on the other-hand never had an issue with a puncher it was speed that troubled him

Styles make fights and everyone has there own kryptonite

 

I assume you're specifically referring to what happened between Jerry and Muhammad in 1970, which was really just getting going when Jerry got opened up to the bone. For their 1972 rematch though, Ali was very, very good, arguably his best showing between Folley and Frazier II. (Yes, Muhammad was in terrific shape for Norton II, but eyewitness Harry Carpenter said he didn't really recapture his 1960s speed until Frazier II, in time for Foreman to pay the price.)

By the way, I focused my previous post on Jerry, because making the case for him is the true challenge of this thread. The case for Norton takes care of itself.

 

As you'll be able to tell by my avatar i'm a Norton fan an i can't really say anythin that hasn't already been said. What i will say is that when i rate fighters i also take into account how they are outside the ring. A lot of people have been discounting the h2h between them on account of Jerry being on drugs, not training etc. In my eyes its not Kennys fault he done what a proper fighter should do and train for the fight! This is what sets fighters like this apart. One thing you can say about Norton is that he always turned up in shape, and lived the life a fighter should do.

 

How can Quarry even compare to Norton?

Norton arguably beat Ali 3 times (although I believe Ali won 2 of the fights).

Ali stopped Quarry in 3 rounds and 7 rounds. Ali never stopped Norton.


Norton's resume is certainly better than Quarry's.


And add that to the fact that I think Norton is often overrated by some people.

 

Patterson wasn't even close to being shot at that point in his career.In fact,besides a few knockdowns,he got the better of Quarry over the twenty-two rounds between the two.Judges just weren't fond of Patterson at that time,though,unfortunately.

 

So....do you rank Cooney over Norton? :think

Because Norton had more left in that fight than Quarry did.

Quarry was always inconsistent but he was at the end of his career and had just been beat into retirement by Frazier, and only came back for money.

 

Quarry, Young, Shavers, Lyle...It's like they're not even real fighters anymore. It's fantasy land and you can imagine that they were anything. It's like magic! I swear that not being champions doesn't open them up to any of the scrutiny that actual champions receive. It's amazing.