Jerry Quarry v Roland Lastarza,Rex Layne,Don Cockell?

I think Layne and Quarry are rather similar in resume. I like Layne to win off watching both on film. Layne impresses me as being quicker with his punches with a better jab. I think he gets off before Quarry most of the time.

Don C--another Brit with a so-so chin and cutting problems. I think off film that he was well-schooled and a bit less of a pushover that modern folks like to make out. I don't know how much regard should be given to his post-Marciano fights, as the already overweight Don C ballooned his tonnage up to 218 over a three month period. I think despite his flab, Don C had quick hands, which might bother Quarry more than expected. I pick Quarry by a decent margin though.

LaStarza is getting some fair criticisms, certainly fair if ranking him against other contenders over the years, but I don't believe some of them follow logically, nor are some valid. This logic relies on judging a fighter with a "padded" record or having been "carefully" managed as automatically going to lose to a fighter who has been proven against tougher competition. If so, Layne should have beaten Marciano, and Hurricane Jackson should have beaten Patterson in their elimination bout.

LaStarza didn't deserve a shot at the title? Really over the top, at least when comparing him to Quarry. Sure, LaStarza was cautiously managed. But Quarry is being given resume credit for fights AFTER he got two separate shots at the title. Through 1966 the only guy who might have been rated at any point was Machen, and Quarry lost that fight. In 1967, he began moving. Miteff? Hadn't been rated for almost a decade. London? Okay, still a decent trial horse. Daniels? Another who was basically losing and an opponent. That got him to the disputed fights with Patterson, and then Spencer. Okay. I certainly consider him a worthy title contender, but I don't on balance see this list as all that much stronger than LaStarza's. After losing to Ellis, he wins five fights, four against tomato cans and the last against Mathis. That gets Quarry a second title shot, against Frazier. After this second title shot, Quarry begins fighting all the tough fights that give him his impressive historical resume.

Bottom line for me is I don't see all that much difference between Quarry and LaStarza in resume up to the time they got title shots. One can certainly view Patterson and Spencer as better scalps than Layne and Bucceroni, but I don't think by all that much. Layne and Bucceroni were rated near the top of the heavyweight division. Layne wasn't a champion, but had beaten two champions. Brion I think was a better scalp than Quarry's #3 guy. LaStarza had lost three times but had reversed two of his losses. His only un-avenged loss was the hotly disputed decision to Marciano. Quarry hadn't beaten not only Machen, but Doyle and Alongi. Not much to choose between these two.

The Jones fights are frankly bad, but Jones had also beaten Tommy Harrison who was a hot fighter for a while and rated in both 1952 and 1953, up to at least #5 in the monthly heavyweight ratings, who had wins over Bivins and Walls among others. The mob "cuffs" story doesn't strike me as credible. It sounds like something out of a very poor B movie. A gangster walks up to the fighter's corner and threatens him in front of thousands of spectators, the press, his cornermen, and the referee. (Can just anyone go to a fighter's corner during a fight?) The source here is allegedly Jones. He supposedly said this "many years" after the fight. Well, he was an old boxer and any aging person can have memory problems, but we don't even know if this is even an accurate quote or spin on a quote. "Cool it" might have been the corner's advice to pace himself. Anyway, the fix stuff doesn't impress me.

As for the rest of it, Charles was the ex-champion, losing the title to Walcott, losing also his rematch shot at the title, and then losing to Layne. Layne then lost to LaStarza. That seems to me to make LaStarza in fact the logical contender. Why should it be Charles who has already had a shot to regain the title? Are the only guys who should be challenging for the title Charles and Walcott? They certainly got their fair share of shots.

I have The Ring issue which previews the LaStarza fight, and Fleischer, Ted Carroll, and Al Buck all discuss the coming fight and all see LaStarza as not only a legitimate contender, but a strong one.

On the original question, though, I like Quarry because of his strong post-title challenges record, but like the Don C fight, this might be tighter than some think. Quarry seems to have had more trouble with the quicker little guys than the powerful, but slow, big guys.

 

Cockell got destroyed in his prime in 4 rounds by feather fisted jimmy slade....he has zero chance vs Quarry

“Well schooled and quick hands”

Quarry was much more well schooled and had faster hands...not to mention quarry was much more athletic, much harder puncher, much stronger, much better stamina, and he was far more durable

 

“Lastarza”

Very Overrated




"His reputation was built on the first Rocky fight. Although he had a long winning streak at the beginning of his career, there are no tough names on his record. After the first Marciano fight he could have forced the issue by meeting top fighters. He refused fights with Charles, Clarence Henry, Bob Baker etc. Lost and avenged to overstuffed lt.heavy Dan Bucceroni and to lt. heavy Rocky Jones and looked terrible against Jones in the rematch. The Jones win and a victory over the faded Rex Layne gave him the credentials to meet Rocky for the title. A fight I am told Rocky was more intent on giving Roland a beating for all of the talk that he "was afraid" to meet LaStarza again than KOing him early which I believe he could have done easily. Look at LaStarza's record there are no tough names on it except for Marciano.I have the complete film of the Jones rematch and believe me LaStarza looked terrible. Jones was approached at the morning weigh-in by Jimmy White (Amato) a shadowy figure who was a mob contact man and manager and told Rocky "we don't wan't any of that stuff that happened in Akron."Jones had two good rounds then was told to "cool it." LaStarza NEVER fought a danerous opponent except Marciano and thats a fact if you know any of the fighters from his era. I am not saying that LaStarza was a coward but he (or, excuse me, his management) refused matches with Henry, Charles, Baker, and Archie Moore. In an article in RING magazine after his career LaStarza admitted as much, saying he wouldn't take those matches because he "deserved" a rematch with Marciano and thought he was offered the other matches by the IBC only because they were trying to knock him out of "his rightful shot at Marciano." Boo Hoo Hoo. Real, confident fighters go out and prove they deserve their shot by beating dangerous fighters to force a showdown with a champion. Again, let me reinterate-when Marciano fought LaStarza the first time Rocky was boxing for the first time after the Vingo tragedy. Rocky had threatened to quit boxing. Is it any wonder he was not the usual agressive Marciano but an understandably gunshy, tenitive boxer that night ?"- Chuck Hasson Boxing Historian



Former Chester Times sports writer Matt Zabitka wrote, “Jones wasn’t given even a minuscule chance of defeating Roland LaStarza, let alone lasting more than a round.

“LaStarza, who was to face undefeated champion Rocky Marciano in a world title bout in September of 1953, was seeking some patsies to beef up his record.

“Jones, a short, muscular type blessed with tons of guts, was booked to be LaStarza’s human punching bag.”

In the rematch at Brooklyn’s Eastern Parkway Arena in front of a national television audience, Rocky lost a unanimous decision after knocking down LaStarza in the second round and cutting both of his eyes.

“LaStarza was the big draw then,” explained Zabitka. “He had to be protected. Jones was a nobody, hence the rapidly arranged rematch.”

Many years later, Rocky was asked why he didn’t continue his assault on LaStarza in their second bout. After knocking down LaStarza in the second round and bloodying his face, many fight fans felt Rocky could have finished him off.

Rocky’s answer was, “Before the fight, the big guys from New York came to see me. They just said, ‘You know what you’re supposed to do, don’t you, Rocky?’ They told me I wasn’t supposed to do my best.”

 

Cockell was garbage. Slade and Valdes exposed how fat, slow, and chinny he really was.


Quarry was about 1000 levels above cockell as a fighter


Quarry Ko 2 fat boy don

 

Only London, Spencer, Miteff, Daniels, Machen, and Patterson (whom you didn't mention) were prior to a title shot.

I pointed out that Quarry fought a much tougher schedule after losing title shots. Actually, this is normal. It is no good trying to protect a fighter who has lost his shot(s) and so is no longer high up in the pecking order. The only hope then is to become the gatekeeper yourself and beat enough young contenders to move back into the hunt.

of the group you list above, he did not beat Machen. Miteff had only won one fight against a 2-8-3 fighter in six years. Daniels was on a 3-16-3 run. That leaves Patterson, Spencer, and London.

I think LaStarza's list of Layne, Bucceroni, and Brion is pretty much a match, and LaStarza might actually have the edge in beating guys who were never top ten but were probably class A fighters (basically top 50 in the old Ring rating system) such as Mitchell, Spagnola, Weinberg, etc.

My argument was mainly about whether LaStarza deserved a title shot, which posters have maintained he didn't. I disagree. I also have no problem with Quarry getting a title shot. These two are far from the guys who least deserved title shots over the years. For that matter, so is Don C.

Anyway, I picked Quarry to win.

 

Quarrys resume blows away lastarazas.

Lastarza went 1-1 with club fighter 14-9 Rocky jones
He only went 1-1 with bucceroni
He was given a gift decision over Layne
He lost to cockell
He lost to norkus
His fight with Brian was described as "dreadful"
He never fought baker, Henry, Louis, Charles, Moore, Johnson, Valdes, satterfield, or Walcott


Quarry beat

Floyd Patterson- top 20 ATG
Thad Spencer- number 2 in the world
Earnie Shavers- considered the hardest hitter in heavyweight history
Ron Lyle- 6'4 220lb top 5 in the world
Mac Foster- another big massive puncher top 10
Larry Middleton - top 10. 6'4 205lb

 

I agree he was protected and had a padded record he certainly did not have the durability or resilience post Rocky but it is his style not his accomplishments that I look at for this matchup....I think Quarry was better but the issue would be getting LaStarza to stand and fight with him......I think then the obvious question is at what stage of his career is fighting Quarry there are two distinct versions pre and post Rocky

 

I can entertain the idea that LaStarza was carefully managed.

I can even entertain the idea that he was not as good as his record suggests.

I cannot entertain the idea that he did not deserve a shot at the title, and the current #1 ranked contender!

 

Lastarza didn't earn a title shot. He won a highly controversial decision over an erratic Layne who was losing to everyone by 1953, beat brion who was barely top 10, and split with bucceroni who was only top 10 because he BEAT LASTARZA.

Roland never justified his top ranking by actually beating genuine ring magazine top 5 contenders like Louis, Charles, Moore, Valdes, Henry, baker, or satterfield.

if beating the erratic Layne quantifies a title shot, where was Willie James title shot or earl walls?

Lastarzas mobbed up manager saved his title shot against Marciano by ordering jones to be on the handcuffs in the rematch after the 14-9 fighter dominated Roland the first time around and after 2 rounds in the rematch....jones admitted he was put on the cuffs.


You should pick Quarry to win. He was an A level fighter in a much tougher era and he remains one of the best heavyweight contenders in history. Cockell, lastarza are B level guys at best in a weaker era

 

His number 1 rating was manaufactured by his manager on the premise of nearly defeating a timid green Marciano 4 years earlier. He got that number 1 ranking without taking on any of the divisions best contenders, and 14-9 Rocky jones was ordered to be on the hand cuffs in the lastarza rematch to prevent Roland from losing out on his gifted shot

 

It is perfectly within the rules, to steer your fighter to a title shot, by matching them against stiffs.

It is a wicked world!