Jerry Quarry vs. Vitali Klitschko

I hear you. In my opinion modern technology has enhanced the viewer’s access to boxing, but it has also diminished the announcers’ ability to call a fight since they rely heavy on technology. Some of the old blow by blow announcers didn't have multiple replay angles or zoom in lenses technology. They were forced to learn their craft by relying on their own eyes and ears.

I don't want to defend EPSN too much, but I do want to point out that they have a 30 minute segment on Quarry titled, “ Jerry Quarry the forgotten heavyweight. “ It shows footages of Quarry vs Ali, Frazier, and Norton. Quarry was a genuine contender who had the misfortune of being born at the wrong time as he fought Frazier and Norton at their best, and Ali near his best.

 

>>You can see the current gym clips on you tube. Vitlai looks good. In additon, he has the size and power. These things are the last to go.

>>Didn't you says Tua was knocked down multiple times? Tua was a teenager when Savon, a seasoned fighter with a dangerous right hand floored him. Tua has a proven chin as a pro, same as Vitali.

>>Louis had a skill edge, a reach edge, and speed edge and in most his fights. The Baer's and Simon's of boxing had a reach edge, but neither man had skills or speed edge.

>>False. Schemling was the first puncher who landed something serious on Louis. We all saw the results. Louis could not recover. He was hurt and off balance. If you can show me another puncher who tested Louis chin by landing hard shots on him before the first Schemling, I will have learned something today. Please don't say Max Baer. He hardly got in much at all.

>>This can be said to many fighters. Did Carnera, Shakrey, and Schmeling see better days before they meet Louis? Yes. Did Bradock have a two year lay off? Yes. Did Bradock floor Louis? Yes. Why? Louis did not have a top chin and lacked good defensive fundamentals and balance. This really is not a Joe Louis thread. Let's move on from this point, unless you can show me big punchers who tested his chin ( Like the shots Lewis and Sadners landed on Vitali ) on Louis prior to Schmeling or post Schemling with Louis not going down.

>>True, but are we not talking about who hit harder?

>>Well, Quarry was down in some non-title fights too.

>>>Ugh. Not so.

1 ) The above paragraph clearly shows other fighters with top chins were down by punchers who in many case did not hit as hard and land the type of knockout shots that Lewis and Sanders did on Vitlai.

2 ) The above paragraph shows that many top champions were knocked down from non-elite level of competition. You wrote,

Well-- I do not consider Bert Cooper, Ken Issac, Marty Marshall, Chuck Wepner, or Sundberg to be world level fighters, yet they floored Holyfeild, Holmes, Liston, Ali, and Dempsey!!!!!! So you see this is a fact that should be used when evaluating chins. You can not have it both ways.

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>>Vitlai has KO'd some very hard to stop opponents. Purrity, Bean, and Donald to name a few. These guys dull Ko percentages, they do not inflate them. Vitlai in most cases has Ko'd his man quicker than the field of fighters who fought the same men. If this isn’t the sign of a puncher, I don’t know what is.

No one is automatically picking Vitali to beat all fighters less than 200 pounds. This would include Dempsey, Louis and Maricano! I have not seen that opinion here. What most are saying is Vitlai would defeat Quarry.

As a footnote Vitlai did fight two smallish heavyweights who used to be cruiser weights. They were Norris and Hide. Norris in particular had a good durability. Take a look at who he fought and you'll see. At any rate these two smallish heavyweight lasted a combined 3 rounds before getting knocked out.

I have put some time typing in a reply here. I beleive you don't dislike Vitlai, but at the same I get the hunch you never read replies that center on an apples to apples comparison on who took the better punch. I hope you now view Vitali's ability to take a punch in a new light.

 

Well, isn't that revealing in itself, that it shows his best known defeats? (Does this segment ever show Jerry winning a match?)

Mendoza, are you in the States, and if so, are you familiar with the NFL? The reason I ask is because of something appalingly lacking in knowledge said by a host on their morning Cold Pizza program. (I stopped watching it as a result of this.) If you're not in the States, or don't give a crap about American football, I won't bother to make mention of this complaint again.

 

Now he is.

Thank you.

 

You suggest that because of the beating Quarry gave them? That is highly speculative and i don't buy it. The fact that Middleton (to name one) stepped up in competition caused his pretty record to go, not the fact that he lost to Quarry.

 

:rofl :rofl :rofl i remember correctly he just striaghten up and just lean back up and lifted ali up...one of the funniest movements in boxing

 

The point is that these wins were seen as being of much greater significance at the time than they are in historical context.

They are exactly the kind of wins that Vitallys admirers use to build up his record. Good wins at the time but not likley to look great in 50 years.

 

But should we really limit outselfs to what people knew back then? We know how well they turned out and we judge them alike.

It is interesting to note that the Quarry supporters do anything to avoid comparing resumes like i did earlier.

You keep repeating this, i don't know why.
Buddy Baer (another "brother of..") didn't really have that very significant wins either but he's not forgotten 80 years later. Unless you are talking about the normal people of course, but then i can guarantee you that they don't know who Quarry was either. Some people who followed to sport in the 70's might remember, but then again, so will a lot of people who watched Vitali Klitschko, 30 years from now. He has a huge fanbase in Germany and eastern Europe, where he is a celebrity.

 

Not highly, but there will be SuzieQ's posting on how Kirk Johnson is very underrated with high handspeed, etc. Dito on Sanders. If we are still talking about Alejandro Lavorante then i doubt the former two will miss the boat, 50 years from now.

Well he had some significant wins over course, Galento, Savold, Abe Simon and he did knock Louis down. My point is that he was not more significant in his time than Vitali was in his (of course Louis has something to do with this, but that is irrelevant), yet we still remember him.

And i don't see why B. Baer should not be recognised as an extremely hard puncher. Not an all time knockout king, but still a very hard puncher. Most of his best wins are over former contenders or tomato cans, but then so are Shavers' wins, and he's a God here at ESB.

Indeed there are some similarities and this is exactly what my point was: B. Baer is still remembered today while you suggested that Vitali will be forgotten in 50 years.
And there is the difference that Vitali has been ring champ and seen as "the man to beat" for a while whereas Baer never was.

As one of the most talented superheavies of the first 100 years of gloved boxing whose carrier was cut short because of injuries and therefore lacks in accomplishements. And yes, he will be the "brother" of Wladimir who has already surpassed him by far in my book, and who will be likely to enhance his legacy further whereas Vitali will not be able to accomplish much anymore due to age.

 

Yes, that is true. Does it matter though? I don't know all that much about B. Baer's opponents either, but i still have a decent picture of who he was and where he stands.

On Ron Lyle, he was certainly a bigger player than Kirk Johnson or Corrie Sanders, no question. But not bigger than Vitali.

Another thing to note is that many people here had their Muhammad Ali as youth hero and as a consequence know a lot about the 70's. Unfortunatly we have only a few posters (excellent posters, by the way) who actually lived throught the 60's or the 50's because many of them either lost their passion for boxing or are not aqcuinted enough with computers to find this site. If we had as many people from the 40's/50's/60's as from the 70's/80's, i can guarantee you we'd be talking a lot more about the punching ability of Elmer Ray instead of why Shavers, i quote, deserves to be mentioned among the greats of all time.

Of course, but that is because B. Baer fought 70 years ago whereas Vitali is still fighting today. And Baer lost to some pretty average fighters whereas Vitali (a bit like Tyson) also dominated lesser opposition AND he managed to look good in controversial (not in my eyes, by the way) defeat, which adds to it.

Vitali exactly the properies which make for a lot of extremes on both sides in discussion: he lost big fights, yet blew away lesser opponents and other contenders. The fights which he lost are one he arguably could've won with more luck. He towers over nearly every fighter from the past. He is not American and he is white. Etc etc.

I know you don't go there, but i can tell you that no fight in the general forum has been more discussed than Lewis vs V. Klitschko.

If there was an ESB 70 years ago, i imagine the same thing happening back then. "Baer knocked Louis through the ropes, he'd knock Fitzsimmons out in one round", etc.

No idea. Maybe he will be the Hart of the twentyfirst's century as you said.

 

Some interesting points.

 

Were Duplooy, Sprott or Cooper ranked highly when Sanders fought them? I didn't think any of them were rated in the top 10 at the time they fought Sanders. Cooper may have been ranked around 10th or so at one point but that was before he faced Sanders.