Jersey Joe v the Greatest

This is a really tough one for MA- Jersey Joe isn’t going to be particularly hurt, doubtfully stopped by Ali, that is with his body of work against Louis standing. He’ll be there all night and he’s got a fine punch, finer accuracy.

JJ is a better “boxer” too to me then anyone Muhammad fought whilst Ali isn’t the best one he’d have fought nor would he be the best he beat if he won. Ali would be yards away from Ezzard as a tactician.

This is one of those bouts where Ali will have to go forward, which has been disastrous but the sample size is small, though I think it’s about right.

JJ is smaller, but he was smaller against Louis and size isn’t the be all for deciding the flow of boxing if you understand range which was what Walcott did best - he’s got a hell of a left hook, knows his body punching and he can do a lot more then “jab with him” he’ll win IMO a UD I don’t think Ali or many guys are ready for the kind of intelligence JJW has.

 

I agree. The one type of fighter that Ali never fought was a good counter-puncher, Ali wouldn't be able to just jab him at will. I think Walcott out-generals him.

 

It depends what you think of “Joltin” Jimmy Young? there’s no one else worth mentioning - though that’s tainted because he “hid outside the ropes” perhaps he should’ve loosened them instead? Ali was fat, but he was still utterly outboxed by a “Journeyman” and he’ll be outboxed by “another” here. It should be assumed Ali could beat this sort of guy because we never saw it, thems the rules.

 

I dont see someone as inconsistent as Walcott troubling Ali, especially someone as inconsistent and unwilling to engage. Walcott looked for opportunities that Ali wouldnt be giving him.

As an aside, its weird to suggest that Ali didnt fight counterpunchers. What were Terrell, Folley, Ellis, Young, Quarry? Even Lyle fought on the backfoot, looking for counters. Now, some might say some of those guys were more aggressive against Ali but thats the same problem Jersey Joe is going to have. Hes going to be shorter, with a shorter reach, weigh less, and be slower. In what universe does he outbox or counter Ali? I just dont see it happening. He wasnt as slippery as Young who gave Ali more problems than anyone I listed above but we are talking about an older and fatter Ali who clearly came in unprepared and that fight was still damn close whether you think Ali deserved it or not. I dont think the best Jersey Joe was slick as that version of Young. I just cant see Walcott beating Ali until Ali was no longer Ali and then whats the point of comparing them?

 

What opportunities are you talking about SC? Respectfully, None of the attributes you wrote down disqualify countering or outboxing someone - JJW as a low hanging fruit demonstrated this himself against Louis. How would you advise Muhammad to fight JJW?

 

Young was the number 2 contender, that does not equate to a "journeyman".

 

Walcott dropped decisions to guys that Ali would have no trouble with,and it took him 5 tries before he finally won the title ,he isnt beating Ali on points,and I don't see him koing him.
Quarry,Folley, and Ellis were counterpunchers,Ali had no trouble with them.

 

Hence the quotation marks. Read again.

 

Quarry, Folley and Ellis also weren’t capable of outboxing Joe Louis - Jimmy Young lost to men Foreman would’ve had no trouble with.

 

They were counterpunchers which is my point. Walcott outboxed,at times, a Louis who had seriously "gone back".Prime for prime Walcott would have been ko'd as he was in their 2nd fight.You have no way of knowing how those three would have done against the version of Louis that Walcott fought.I'll say this ,imo Quarry,Ellis ,and Folley would not have lost decisions to Rex Layne. Walcott had 70 fights and lost 20 of them,he isnt beating Ali.

 

And you have no way of knowing how Walcott would do against Ali? - fantasy fight remember?

 

Oh Sure.Reg Gutteridge always thought Walcott would be trouble for Ali.

 

On his best night Walcott would be a tough assignment for anyone. But Ali was just too good.

 

Counterpunching opportunitities. I thought that would be self evident given the premise that Ali supposedly didnt fight counterpunchers...

You act as if the Joe Louis that Walcott failed to beat was the best version of Louis and that Louis and Ali fought the same and had the same dimensions. I dont think Ive ever seen anyone pick a prime Joe Louis to beat Ali nevermind that Louis was a stalking slugger who afforded JWW a lot more opportunities to shine than Ali would considering Ali was faster on his feet and with his hands than either Louis or Walcott and was bigger, had a longer reach, and frankly more durable. Sorry I just dont see him struggling with a guy who lost nearly 30% of his fights and many times he lost to guys who would have been selected as opponents in Ali's first ten fights.