Depends on the ruleset. 20 rounds or less with a decision to be given at the end of it and I'd take Wills.
Was watching willards fight with johnson the other day, and it shocked me to see how fit he looked, like he had really been training hard, then compare how he looked vs dempsey, and it seems in the 4 years inbetween he was either losing interest or had taken it easy with his training expecting an easy fight (which i believe is true), so it seems if he really wanted to, the guy could look good both in himself and how he was in the ring. Any way guess im saying he would have to really train hard to give the great willis a fight, or else he would probaly lose, though not sure if by KO
This is a question that should have been asked earlier. The reason being that Wills prime years probably cover the period when Willard was champion and it could be argued that he was the best heavy on the planet over this period. Much ink has been spilled on whetehr he could have beaten Dempsey but what about Willard?
I agree. Its a very real possibility. Wills did not have the fast and aggressive punching ability to do to Willard what Dempsey did, and had they met, this would have been a prime Willard, unlike the one that fought Jack anyway. In addition, to constantly have a 6'7", 240 lb man who was capable of boxing for 40 rounds, leaning on you all night, would have created problems for just about anybody.. Wills was the better fighter, but when placed in the same ring I think anything could have happened.
Wills would not be able to tire Willard out in the clinches as he did with many fighters his own size. I fancy that he was probably the better boxer and might be able to counterpunch Willard. His fights with Big Bill Tate (who was about the size of Willard) might be required reading before making a pick.
In 1922, Milwaukie played host to two big boxing bouts By John Terry, Special to The Oregonian February 20, 2010, 5:34PM The Oregonian's headline pulled no punches in touting the next day's boxing match: "When Negro Heavyweight Champion Contenders Meet, Impact May Well Be Heard Around World." Indeed, when Harry "The Black Panther" Wills and "Big" Bill Tate stepped into the ring in Milwaukie -- yes, our little Milwaukie -- on Jan. 2, 1922, their eyes were on not only each other but also Jack Dempsey's heavyweight crown. Wills was one of the best-known boxers of his time. A former New Orleans longshoreman, he racked up 82 wins, 54 by knockout, 10 losses and five draws in a boxing career that lasted from 1911 to 1932. Tate was a native of Montgomery, Ala., and reportedly a 1905 graduate of Alabama's A and M Normal College. From 1912 to 1928 he fought 67 fights with 34 wins, 24 by knockout, 28 losses and five draws. He was a favorite sparring partner of Dempsey. Wills was 6-foot-3 and weighed from 210 to 230 pounds; Tate was 6-foot-6 and weighed from 220 to 243. Dempsey, by contrast, was 6-foot-1 and was listed at from 165 to 205 pounds. The Wills-Tate Milwaukie bouts (more about that plural in a moment) were promoted by George Moore, from 1918-1923 treasurer of the African-American Portland Times newspaper. "Moore also distinguished himself as a great promoter of young prize fighters in Portland ...," says Herbert L. Brame's "African American Athletes in Oregon." Moore's enterprise probably landed in Milwaukie because Portland lacked venues where he could stage fights frequently or profitably, says Johnny Elkins, a local boxing historian. In Milwaukie, Moore found a former streetcar barn, at Main and Harrison streets, where City Hall stands today. Refurbished as a boxing arena, it seated about 5,000. Moore invested much as $9,000 in the car barn, and from November 1919 to December 1922 he staged 46 fight cards. Four world champions fought there as well as numerous other ring luminaries, according to the Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia. The Wills-Tate fight, billed as the "Colored Heavyweight Championship of the World," by far attracted the greatest attention. "On this fight ... hangs the whole future of Harry Wills as a possibility for the heavyweight champion of the world," wrote The Oregonian's L.H. Gregory. "And for Tate much the same may be said." Gregory punctuated the fight's importance by noting the Chicago Tribune "sent a representative here to cover it in person." The bout was a sellout with the gate totaling more than $17,000, a record for Oregon until the 1940s, Boxrec says. The fight began as advertised, but complications soon developed. Early in the first round, referee Tom Louttit disqualified Wills for throwing a punch on a break and declared Tate the winner. "Moore immediately demanded a rematch because he felt the fans didn't get their money's worth," says Elkins. "He also withheld the fighters' purses to pressure them into fighting again, even though he couldn't legally do so." A meeting was held. Both sides did some posturing, then agreed to a rematch four days later. Moore announced he would honor all tickets from the first fight. Many had thrown their ticket stubs away, so he installed an honor system. "If you said you were there, you got in," Elkins says. "A lot who weren't there obviously claimed to be. The place was jammed far beyond capacity." The Jan. 6 fight went 10 rounds to a draw. Both men claimed victory. The fans were reported satisfied. "Most of the crowd thought Wills had won," Elkins says, "but it never was established who was the black heavyweight champion." Tate faded from the boxing scene and died in 1953. Wills pursued a fight against Dempsey, but prejudice against an African American holding the heavyweight title prevented him getting a match with "The Manassa Mauler." He was paid $50,000 by Dempsey partisans to stand aside. The debate whether Wills could have bested Dempsey continues to this day. Wills left the ring in 1932 and ran a real estate business in Harlem, N.Y. He died in 1958. Moore's Milwaukie arena became a dance hall and then history. -- This content is protected , Special to The Oregonian
This content is protected The Oregonian/1922This illustration appeared in The Oregonian of Jan. 1, 1922, with a preview of the boxing match between "Big" Bill Tate (left) and Harry "The Black Panther" Wills. The heavyweights ended up fighting twice before big crowds at a converted car barn in Milwaukie
True, Incidentally, I have seen either very little footage of these men, or none at all.... I'm basing my assumptions on what I've either read, heard, or seen in very limited flashes... What do you have?
Great stuff but Bill Tate was not remotely in the class of Willard. This match-up still has me perplexed, though. Willard's achilles heal was fast, smaller fighters, which Wills was neither. On film evidence, I am far more impressed with Willard-Moran and Willard-Johnson than the scant evidence of Wills, but there is so little of Wills and none in his prime. My head says Wills takes this, my gut says Willard... prime for prime. How's that for fence-sitting?
I pretty much agree with this. If it's 1916 and scheduled for 10, 12, 15 or 20 rounds, with a decision at the end, I'm leaning to Wills. But, since Willard as champion would probably have more say on the rule set, it would probably be a no decision fight for 10 or 12 rounds. So I would favor Willard keeping his belt.
The point often made that Wills was slow was a myth made by Dempsey apologists to justify that Jack wold have feasted on Wills anyway as he often did on big, slow men ... it's way off ... from all I have read a prime Wills was quite fast and would have likely decisioned Willard over 15 or 20 rounds ...
I guess it's all relative. Fred Fulton was probably "quite fast" (going on some things i've read) but Dempsey still clumped him in with "those big, slow guys, easy to lick" who he feasted on. I seriously doubt Wills was fast on his feet when compared to the likes of Dempsey, and some of Dempsey's smaller opponents. His hands might have been quick though. Another thing to consider is that Wills' performances might have been inconsistent, even in his prime. With guys 210, 220 pounds and up, even on a slight off-day they tend to come across as slow and lumbering. ..... or it's all a conspiracy. A myth made by Dempsey apologists, as you say.
There's enough footage of Willard to make up one's mind on him against Johnson, Dempsey, Firpo, Moran, F. Johnson. The only Wills fight I've seen is against Uzcudun. I've heard that the Sharkey fight exists and another fight earlier on from the 1920's but can't confirm it. http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=21124