Jess Willard vs Frans Botha

Guys still enter boxing late and become something. Somebody either can cut the mustard or they can't and Botha just didn't cut it against good competition. Wilder picked up boxing at 20 years old and is the long time WBC Champion. Stiverne picked up boxing at 19 and became WBC Champion. Jameel McCline started boxing at 25 years old with no amateur experience and arguably accomplished more than Botha considering he beat both Briggs and Grant, who are two people Botha couldn't beat. Dwight Qawi also started boxing in his mid 20's and turned pro at 25 years old without any amateur experience, but still managed to become a world champion.

Also, those titles don't mean squat, since a title alone doesn't make you a champion. Who in the world did Botha beat to call himself a champion?

 

Siza Makathini, Bob Mirovic and Axel Schultz.

He got robbed against Briggs

And didn't Willard start at 30?

 

Surely to God Willard must be the favorite here.

I mean who did Botha actually beat?

Is looking good against that version of Tyson, in a losing effort, really such an impressive accomplishment?

 

Apparently losing is more impressive than winning here.

 

Who did Willard actually beat? JJ, and that's a washed up version. You really think Botha couldn't beat that version of JJ? Botha would have finished him off earlier.

Who did Willard actually beat?

Give me a single name that would get ANYWHERE other than the infirmary at the top levels in Botha's era?

Wait, I know! let's pitch Frank Moran against Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson, Wlad, Briggs and company. Surely the dentist will destroy them all and win a title!

 

Speculation.

Let's focus on who they actually beat.

I submit that even a washed up Jack Johnson, is a lot better than anybody that Botha beat.

Even some of Willard's other victims probably were, because Botha was not really beating the top contenders of his era.

He won't, but Botha didn't beat them either, so the point is somewhat moot!

 

We fundamentally disagree then.

The difference is I will be able to refer to copious footage of Botha actually looking competitive and good (in spots - to be fair) against high level opposition whereas Willard rarely looked good even against his second grade opposition. The first truly prime and elite fighter he faced turned him into a highlight reel for the ages and sent him straight to hospital.

 

Who did Botha actually beat that was any good in his own era if that's the yard stick?

He certainly didn't beat Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson, Wlad or even Briggs.

Also Briggs was terrible, getting a gift over 48 year old Foreman is not exactly an ATG accomplishment.

 

The difference is Willard actually beat respectable contenders and became champion, by beating the champion. Botha beat journymen and lost to contenders.

 

willard smash.

 

he looked outclassed against the few good guys he fought, most of his resume is shyt outside that.

 

^ and Herol is an expert at being outclassed, so he should know!