Jess Willard vs Jack Johnson: A skillfest

There is a lot of film. The fight was very even past round 10 on the rounds show, long before Johnson tired.

Which big / prime fighters fighters with ability did Johnson beat? Willard long straight shots landed.

Insight into Willard's corner was to pace himself. He listened to his corner . Meanwhile Johnson who realized could not keep the pace, or rest on Willard in a clinch had to switch from his normal tactics, and attack in spurts, which he did effectively at times. His problem was he lacked the power to hurt the defensively wide open Willard.

 

Klondike Haynes, Sam McVea, Denver Ed Martin, Sandy Ferguson, Al Kaufman, Frank Moran.

The problem is that he was in poor shape and couldn't keep up after 20 rounds. Prime Johnson would not lose to Willard.

 

Johnson was older. Willard wasn't a spring chicken either. ( Age 33 ) We don't know who the better man would have been if they fought in 1912. What we can say is Willards was Johnson best title opponent by far.

My interpretation is Willard would have won the match scheduled this distance whether Johnson was 27 or 37.

 

Klondike knocked Johnson out and drew with him.

Sam MCVey was a raw teeanger when Johnson beat him, Age, 18 and 19. Hardly an example of Johnson beating a good big man in his prime.

Johnson in his prime wasn't really an active guy in the later rounds, a reason he lost Marvin Hart, not did he have the best chin.

Kaufman was awful. Fergsuon who gave Johnson some troubles wasn't very good either.

I'lll give you Martin, though he was a sting bean type who was just 21 year old when he lost to Johnson.

The prime bigger guy who can fight, like Hart, or Grifiin beat Johnson.

 

The referee said had he given a decision after 20 rds it would have been for Johnson.Johnson,knowing he could not last 45rds,had to stop Willard,and do it while he still had his strength . Everything was geared in favour of Willard the distance,the humidity,Johnson's age, and lack of condition the film shows he was flabby and soft.Don't let anyone tell you Havana is not hot in April I was there 3 years ago and had to change clothes 3 times a day and that's just from walking around near the Malecon sea front.
Johnson was in that ring for two hours and 37 years old,he hadn't been in real shape for years.
I think he fought a game, courageous fight,and when he knew he was going to lose,he asked for someone to take his wife out of the arena,and then went out on his shield.

 

Klondike beat Johnson when he was a novice. You also forgot to mention that Johnson knocked him out.

McVea already beat Martin before Johnson losses. Sam was very good young fighter.

They were decent enough, not worse than some of Jeffries opponents.

You can't give Johnson any credit, even when beating very good big fighter like Martin.

Griffin beat Johnson before his prime. Hart decision was disputed to say the least.

I don't care about discussion about Johnson with you. You feel that odd hate to a fighter than died way before you were born, that's sad...

 

Okay I'll play along but no double standards. Deal? Johnson beat Ed Martin when he was 21. You listed Martin as a prime win for Johnson, but you're using the same age to excuse the loss to Klondike, who had less experience. This is a double standard. If you feel Martin was an opponent in his prime that Johnson beat ( You listed his name ), then you can say the same for Klondike. Johnson was active boxing in the early 1890's, he was far from a novice when he los tin 1899 to Klondike.


Johnson beat Langford when Langford was an estimated 20 year old and 156 pounds, Johnson beat Jeannette a fighter who turned pro late with no amateur experience and sometimes losing record. Johnson was 27-28 year old for these fights, and has been active since the early 1890's. So neither Langford or Jeannette were close to their prime when they fought Johnson.

McVey was 18 and 19 years old, and green when he lost to Johnson. Like I said a teenager.

Maybe some of Jeffries early opponents.

Hold on, I said "I'll give you Martin, though he was a sting bean type who was just 21 year old when he lost to Johnson. ". I think Martin was one of Johnson's best wins. So I did give him credit.

Griffin was past his best when the fights happened. Johnson was 23. You might be interested to learn Johnson had 24 recorded matches before ehe lost to Choyniski, who was also past his best when he defeated Johnson. Johnson admitted he lost to Hart, I quoted it before here.

 

Great post. Big Jess trained like a maniac for this fight. It’s too bad Jess started boxing as late as he did and got lazy after winning the title. Johnson was a fool to underestimate him like he did.

During the three years Jess sat on the sidelines if he would’ve participated in some exhibitions he would’ve maintained his skills and conditioning because by the time he fought Dempsey he was a fat unmotivated slob.

 

He was also 23, as Johnson has 2 wins over Ed. Either way, all of his best wins came before Johnson losses and he was a colored HW champion. He was at his best when he lost to Johnson.

Not all fighters age the same way. Johnson was a late boomer, he struggled early on with weaker fighters than he beat later. Either way, Johnson beat Klondike anyway, even if you assume that Klondike beat prime Johnson they split the series.

We're not talking about Langford or Jeannete here.

A teenager people wanted to see against world champion James Jeffries. McVea wasn't your typical teenager.

Certainly not worse than Munroe or Kennedy.

You gave him credit, although... so yeah, that's not giving credit at all. You said that he beat Martin, but Martin wasn't any good. Which is false.

 

Ferguson was good enough to beat
Byers
Armstrong
Klondike
Jeannette
Drew with Ruhlinx2
Drew with Langford
21 years old Martin had beaten
Armstrongx2
Craig x2
Ferguson
Childs
Griffin
Russell
Klondike
23 years old Martin had just beaten McVey when Johnson ko'd him for several minutes.
You are attempting to have a sensible discussion with a phobic and virulent JOHNSON HATER

I no longer waste my time with the fool.

 

Okay, we agree then on Langford and Jeannete not being big wins for Johnson when they happened. We are close on Martin being a big win, though I think he was a little young ( 21 year old ) for that fight. We disagree on Mcvey, he was very green and young.

Johnson was 1-1-1 vs Klondike. But Klondike really wasn't a top name. His final records reads 24-11-3 with 8 KO Losses, some of those KO losses were vs much smaller men.

What are Johnson's best five wins? We might not be far apart.

1. Burns
2. Martin
3. Hard to say, maybe Moran.
4. ???
5. ???

 

Here homer homer, Ferguson has as many loses as draws ( 35 ) as he does wins. ( 35 ) I guess that's good in your book. If you look closely he often drew or defeated with the washed up, very green or old but don't let any facts get in your way.

As usually you make at least ONE mistake. Where did Ferguson bet Craig? Also did he beat another Ferguson? I'll stamp your fool book for you. No charge.

 

Johnson won two fights against Martin.

You asked for big opponents, not best opponents.

 

Anybody familiar with the contemporary press, knows that Martin and McVea were seen as big wins, when Johnson beat them.

These were men who the press were clamoring for Jeffries to fight.

the fact that they were young fighters is not particularly important.

 

At 203lbs Martin was 23 lbs heavier than Johnson.
His previous 7 fights were wins over
Armstrong
Craig
Craig
Armstrong
Ferguson
Childs
Russell
After being kod by Johnson,he beat McVey in his next fight.Martin was an important scalp!