Jess Willard who defeated Jack Johnson, VS Primo Carnera who defeated Sharkey.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Johnstown, Sep 18, 2010.


  1. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    157
    Mar 4, 2009
    Carnera did well against men of his size, something Willard cannot necessarily claim, aside from the decision win over Carl Morris.

    Willard may or may not have been a huge puncher but he did not punch much, and his power was rarely evident against top class opposition. Gunboat Smith, Rodel and Tom McMahon managed to outpoint him, and Jack Johnson was leading for 20 rounds until being worn down.

    It took two of the biggest heavyweight punchers to dispose of a prime Carnera, and against Baer his ankle was broken in the very first round with Carnera continuing for 10 more rounds, winning several of the rounds.
     
  2. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

    25,430
    9,415
    Jul 15, 2008
    How many other talented big punchers did he fight who were not handcuffed ? Baer was a very limited fighter and he toyed with Carnera ... Louis should have been locked up for murder ... Godfrey ws handcuffed ... Uz had the breaks on for the title defense besides being not quite top quality himself ... I can name you fifteen men of the top of my head that would have flattened Carnera ... he just happened to fight many blown up light heavyweights and journeymen ...can you image if Dempsey, Marciano, Patterson, Frazier, Cleveland Williams, Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Ken Norton, Tyson, Lewis, Witherspoon, Bowe and so many others had a crack at Primo ? He'd have been badly KO'ed by all of them and many others ....
     
  3. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    157
    Mar 4, 2009
    In that case Baer also "toyed" with Max Schmeling, limited as he was.

    No proof whatsoever of Godfrey being handcuffed as he lands several big right hands throughout the bout.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzeY4udtFQg[/ame]

    2:20, 2:30, 2:40

    Hardly looks like a man who is doing his best not to knock out his opponent.

    Even if Uzcudun had the "breaks" on for the title defense, for which I haven't seen any proof, he certainly did not in their earlier bout when Uzcudun fought Carnera in his own hometown and lost a clear decision according to most experts. The same Uzcudun who went on to beat Max Baer a year later.

    The first time Willard himself fought a "talented big puncher" he was beaten to a pulp in one round, and later KO'd by Firpo. I do not doubt his ability to take a punch, but I also do not doubt Carnera's heart based on the Baer and even the Louis fight. Willard is not a finisher and likely wouldn't get Primo out of there unless it's a fight to the finish.
     
  4. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,604
    290
    Apr 18, 2007
    I don't sell Jess short here. He stopped 6'6" Dan Dailey in nine a year before Havana. The NY Times called the 1912 MSG draw with McCarty for Willard.
    Dempsey said he could hit, and he killed Bull Young. Nobody stopped Floyd Johnson prior to Willard, and the Auburn Bulldog was coming off a 12 round NWS over Fulton.
    Jess only needed to be on his feet at the final bell to retain the title against Moran. Instead, his superior hand speed was a key factor in virtually shutting out Moran over ten. (A slight fracture on the joint of his right index finger, apparently sustained in round three, eliminated any chance he had to produce a knockout.) More than once, Moran would start a punch, then Willard's left would dart in and out before Frank's shot had gotten half way to the target.

    Typically, Primo's heart is far greater, but the Willard of Havana had worked extremely hard, and was fully committed. In a match scheduled for the classic championship distance, he'd accelerate his work rate considerably.

    Willard was more active in defending himself. He was able to get under the much shorter Moran at times, while Primo often had his chin up, relying on his usual height and reach advantage to afford some protection.
     
  5. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,241
    157
    Mar 4, 2009
    Dailey may have been 6'6, but he only weighed around 200 pounds and it took Willard 9 rounds to dispose of him when Fred Fulton, whom Willard refused to face, got the job done inside a single round.

    Dempsey said he could hit, but he didn't get to hit Dempsey much, if at all. Bull Young was a local tough man and sparring partner who was unnecessarily KO'd three times by Willard, the last one taking 11 rounds. Carnera too "killed" a far more accomplished fighter in Ernie Schaaf, an actual top rater, although I would not claim that as any kind of proof of his power.

    Fulton was well shot by then, and it again took 11 rounds for Willard to stop Floyd Johnson.

    I would not claim that Willard looked fast in that fight though, more so that Moran was extremely crude. I just do not see much proof of Willard's huge punching power and superior skills and speed.