Jim Jefferies vs. Max Schmeling

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dpw417, Apr 27, 2008.



  1. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I like Jeffries in this one. I think his crouch would somewhat offset Max's right and I would expect him to survive the big rights when they come. I think it would be important for Jeff to fight aggressively and force Schmeling to retreat, so he could not get set to throw that right.
    If Jeff fights cautiously, pawing around with his left, he plays into Schmeling's strength as a counterpuncher.

    One strength of Schmeling's no one has focused on is his superb stamina. He tended to come on in his fights in the late rounds, with the Baer fight the big exception. It is at least possible that he could match Jeff in stamina.

    Several posters have commented on the size of Jeff's opposition, but it is also true that Schmeling did not defeat a quality fighter of Jeff's size. Louis was under 200. Foord at 207 was the largest decent heavy Schmeling defeated, and he did not knock him out. Jeff at 220 would be considerably bigger than anyone Max successfully handled.

    The closest comp among Schmeling's competition to Jeff is Baer and that fight does not auger well for Schmeling against Jeffries.
     
  2. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And Schmeling had suffered a severe back injury from a Louis punch and couldn't move at all. From that point on, he was a sitting duck.
     
  3. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In his autobiography, Schmeling describes these three early losses. Dieckmann caught him with a wild punch which badly cut Schmeling's ear. His corner could not staunch the bleeding and the fight was stopped.

    Gains cut him over the eye.

    Schmeling admits he did not train seriously for the Daniels fight and was playing around at night. He describes himself as getting caught bouncing off the ropes and taking the count from one punch. He wrote that he learned his lesson. It sort of sounds like Lennox Lewis against Rahman.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Schmeling fought several men over 200lbs which is more than can be said for Jeffries ,the only man he met over that was Johnson at 207 ,no need to explain that result.The biggest man Jeffries fought was Ruhlin at 200lb he drew with Gus and stopped him when in another Ruhlins seconds threw in the towel.Glad you got the info on Schmelings early stoppage defeats ,I wonder if Mendoza will admit he was mistaken about Max's chin in the light of your information ? I some how doubt it.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think I read ssomewhere that the Baer Schmeling fight was fought outdoors in extremely hot conditions ,which you might think the Californian based Baer would weather better than the German I beleive both fighters lost a significant amount of weight in this one
     
  6. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well, Baer had great stamina. He twice went twenty rounds in the sun at Reno. That may have helped him against Schmeling.
     
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    many dont realize this, but the baer-schmeling fight was about dead even going into the last round, until baers dramatic 10th round........this was one of schmelings worst nights, he did not let his hands go. he is a better fighter than baer. I would have liked to see rematch
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Where did Old Fogey say anything about Max's durability? He was takling about his stamina to fight 15 rounds. I agree with Old Fogey here.

    Regarding weight, Jack Munroe weighed in at 210 pounds when he met Jeffries according to papers. The box rec weight is not correct.

    If truth is told, you don't want to be slow bigger and stronger punchers. Look at Foreman and Liston. Who gave them trouble, the heavy guys or the fleet footed?
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Old Fogey didnt say anything about Max's durability You Did!.you said that because Schmeling was stopped by Diekmann ,Gains and Daniels ,i t proved his chin was suspect against second tier punchers.Old Fogey found out and printed the fact that the Diekmann and Gains fight were stopped due to cuts,so Schmeling was only legitimately stopped as in kod once before Baer and Louis,and as I said he was caught cold,I had actually read that he was living the high life and underestimated Daniels ,because he had beaten him 3 months earlier,that was in an extract from his autobiography ,that I found on the net,I didnt type it because I knew you would think I was making excuses for Max,but someone else,possibly Old Fogey has mentioned it and taken the trouble to get the info on Max's early stoppages,I beleive you made your statement s about Schmeling's chin in good faith ,in the light of the new information about the stoppages ,perhaps ypu would withdraw them?.O F makes what could be an important point here I feel,Jeffries crouch,with him leaning to his right Schmeling would find it difficult to land his best punch ,the right cross,this could lessen the damage the German might inflict ,to a marked degree,imo.I have looked for Munroes weight every where,Nat Fleischer gives it as 186 ,in his "History Of the Championship." The Book Of Boxing ,puiblished by Sports Illustrated gives it as 186,as does Box rec what is your source for 210 Mendoza?.Adam Pollack may have some ideas on this .
     
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    Jeffries fought similiar style to uzcuden but schmeling adapted to hitting uzcudens with his right hand, by being patient utilizing his jab and waiting for uzcuden to get anxious and go on the offense, and when he would do this schmeling would calmly wait for the opening and attack......it would be an extra cautius approach against jeffries but it would work. Schmeling would follow up after pinpointing his target with a volley of combos. Schmeling was a good combination puncher, jeff didnt throw 4-5 punches combos like maxy did......
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I perhaps over emphasised the point ,but I didnt want to be accused of bias by Mendoza,technically Max is better and possible he hit harder than Jeffries,if we factor in the cut stoppages on Schmelings record,he looks a very live opponent for the fairly predictable Jeffries.If the Iron Man comes forward I think Schmeling counters him,if he lays back Max outboxes him.Can you imagine Schmeling watching Jeffries beating up on Munroe and Finnegan?
    " I See Sometings"
     
  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 Officer Full Member

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    :lol: :lol:




    I am not like Mendoza. I dont see jeffries as a top 3 heavyweight of all time like he does. I see jeffries as a top 15 heavyweihgt of all time. He seemed to me more of a world class athlete/physical speciman than say a......boxer. if you get what I mean.


    People here try to talk about jeffries 10 second 100 yard meter, his carrying a polar bear on his back sprinting 9 miles, his incredible hulking physique, his world class wrestling skills......yet when it comes time to box he did not have natural boxing instincts......he did not know how to use his size adaquetley on the much smaller men......he was not the monsterous puncher in the class of foreman/liston. He was simply put an Athlete. He did not have the natural "it" when it came to boxing like joe louis did. Joe Louis was born to be a fighter.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree,a dour unimaginative man of few words,strong as a bull,with a very high threshold of pain.Jeffries makes my top 20, but he might struggle today where his size would be comparatively small ,eg Holyfield,if you trade on durability, as Jeffries did we have to wonder how he weathers the big hitters of the last few decades ,and how he would survive against precision punchers like Louis.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Cuts to an extend are part of durability. Dikemann was a journeyman.

    Stopped one in round one by a journeyman, and twice in rounds 2 and 4 by cuts from other fighters. I want to read more here, as these are very early cut stoppages. I'll leave the door open to a TKO loss where Schemling was beat up and also cut. Who has a full report? Remember, cuts stoppages back then took much longer than than do today.


    Schemling could not keep fighters off him who hit hard who were willing to press the action. That was his main problem. I'm not saying china chin here, bit it was not good either. SUspect it was vs Punchers, and open to be upset by joruneyman.

    I enjoyed Fleischer's illustrated boxing. The trouble is has been re-hashed a few times, and has its share of mistakes. The editing on research on a giant encyclopedia like books in those days were not great. It was all Fleischer. Jeffires page alone has errors in it. For example, Fleischer says Jeffries was French. His ancestry was Dutch. Munroe according to newspapers ( San Fran ) weighted 210 pounds. Fleischer for some reason says 186.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Agreed. You have been on a roll lately.

    Tyson's win over Holmes in you mind was a big win for Tyson.....

    Tyson ruined Ruddock....

    I can't top this. I have noticed in some of your posts you like to add years and weight to fighters. You make the fighters you like heavier and taller and the fighters you dislike shorter and lighter.

    Can you take it easy on me? I am a bit younger than 40. Don't be so cruel as to add years that aren't there. Also I'm a bit over 6 feet tall and 215 pounds, so that would make me a giant in the 50's, right?