Jim Jeffries beat Fitz, Sharkey and Corbett in under 12 months

I have film of Denver Ed Martin sparring with Ruhlin. He looks like he definitely got the better of Ruhlin. My father even asked me "Why isn't the black guy fighting jeffries for the title instead?

 

Jeffries stated this unequivocably on several occasions.

 

I have never read a statement from Jeffries that he was prepared to meet black challengers, but I have read several where he states that he will not entertain the thought of fighting one, lest he lose his title to a member of the coloured race.

 

Jeffries did defeat outstanding black contenders Hank Griffin, Bob Armstrong, and Peter Jackson. Jeffries was the only white heavyweight of the era to do so. He gets points for this. It's a shame he decided to change his course, and abandon his early onslaught of the color line. Jeffries had a chance to seal the deal on his legacy with a pair of wins over Denver Ed Martin in late 1902, and Jack Johnson in 1905.

 

Did you tell him that one possible reason was that he had already beaten Denver Ed Martin, according to one unconfirmed report?

Or did you just tell him that it was because Denver Ed Martin had already been knocked out in two rounds within 18 months by the former Jeffries victim and current Jeffries sparring partner, Bob Armstrong?

 

Yes I would agree, I think there was only really Johnson that would have made a credible fight with Jeffries.Childs was rather too small.

 

Jeffries has a reported KO over Childs. As Champion Jeffries fought a 4 round match vs Griffin, so him saying he would not fight a black man as champion isn't really 100% correct. There was a color line back then, but each fighter also had his price and terms and conditions to accept a mix match.

Johnson wasn't seen as a top contender until 1903ish to 1905, then he lost to Hart. After that fight Jeffries retired.

 

1. That was Martin's pro debut. Are you really holding someone's pro debut against them?

2. Martin was the colored heavyweight champion in 1902. He defeated Bob Armstrong by a wide 15 round decision

"Martin proved the cleverer and never gave his opponent a chance, being declared an easy winner on points at the close of the fifteenth round; Martin, it is announced, will challenge the winner of the Jeffries-Fitzsimmons fight in San Francsico." (Associated Press) 7/25 1902


Interestingly enough, Jeff never fought Martin after beating Fitz.

 

Jack Johnson won the world coloured heavyweight title in 1903 with a decision over Top Contender Denver Ed Martin, who was next in line for Jeffries throne. Jack Johnson continued to defend the coloured heavyweight title for the next several years. I believe your statement above is way off. Johnson climbed atop the rankings when he won the coloured heavyweight champion in 1903.

 

I think we're overlooking the fact that Fitz, Sharkey and Corbett aren't even real Heavyweights. Jeff outweighed each man by 30-50lbs. Imagine Tyson or Ali beating up a 168lber like Fitzimmons. Not to diminish Jeff in anyway but these weren't big talented HW's he was going up against. More like smaller more experienced men ranging from a super MW to a smallish CW. Not Jeff's fault though. He fought and beat what was put in front of him. What else can you ask of him?

 

There are broken links and exemptions with the the heavyweight colored championship. For example Wills and Godfrey never meet yet a match could have been made for the colored championship.

The colored championship has many loop holes in it. A champions title should be on the line anytime he's in the ring in a pro fight. That was not the case with the colored championship.

Did Johnson have the colored championship in 1901? If so that would make Choysnki the colored champ? Of course not.

Johnson started to win big matches in 1903, but by March 1905, he had lost to Hart, and with that put moved back in line for contention. So really there was only say a 1.5 year window for Johnson laying a claim as the #1 contender.

PS: I'll give props for anyone who can produce a picture of the colored championship belt. I read it was black leather with diamond studs. Anyone have a photo?

 

Corbett's weight more than Rocky Marciano and Jack Dempsey, plus a few other guys after him. Sharkey was only a few pounds lighter. The way I see it if you fight and stay at heavyweight, you're a heavyweight.

Oddly enough, sometimes speedy curisers can give small heavies can give very good fits, even ones as good as Joe Louis. However the much larger skilled super heavies completely take the smaller cruisers out of their game.

 

In the long term, not in the slightest, but are you really saying that Denver Ed Martin deserved a title shot 18 months after being KOd in 2 in his debut? Jeffries, Dempsey, Johnson, Fitzsimmons, Foreman, Tyson, Louis, Frazier, and virtually everyone else except Leon Spinks (who himself still had to wait 12 months). Why was Denver so much better than these guys?

He fought Fitz in 1902. In 1903 when he was ready for his next fight, Martin had lost to Johnson and been knocked out by Jeffries victim Armstrong (again:admin, did i read that right?) and McVey. I think Jeffries might ahve been criticised if he took a Martin fight.

Incidentally, i think that Martin seemed to be the best coloured fighter before johnson beat him. What caused him to deteriorate so quickly?