Jim Jeffries Turns Down Offer of $20,000 To defend Against McVey In 1903.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Feb 16, 2012.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Champion Jim Jeffries turned down a $20,000 offer to fight Sam McVey in 1903.

    Stating McVey, having been recently defeated by as he put it "little fellow Johnson ",was not of championship class.

    Three years earlier he had defended against John Finnegan 180lbs 4-2-4 who ,a few months prior to his challenge, had been floored 7 times and kod by Gus Ruhlin.

    Less than a year after refusing McVey's challenge, Jeffries defended against Jack Munroe ,8-3-2.:think


    http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cd...srpos=17&e=-------en--20--1--txt-IN-Sam+McVey----#
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Jeffries point is sound. McVey hadn't earned the shot.
     
  3. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Another interesting find ... it's obvious Jim lived by the color line and ended up paying a tremendous price for it years later in Reno ...
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Agreed, but neither had Finnegan ,or Munroe.
    Jeffries stated he lost money on the Munroe defence , so if the merits of his challengers was secondary [,as Finnegan and Munroe show], why not take the $20,000.:huh?
    For the record, Finnegan ,and Munroe lasted a total of 4min 10seconds.
    I think Sam McVey, who had kos over Denver Ed Martin, Fred Russell ,and Kid Carter on his record, might have been able to improve on that.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It is curious that there seems to have been more interest in matching Jeffries with McVea than for matching him with Johnson in many quaters.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I would make him a hot favourite to beat Mcvey at that time,and favourite to beat him prime for prime. $20,000 missed ,imo.

    Still if he had beaten McVey, he could hardly have then excluded Johnson on grounds of colour ,could he?
     
  7. psychoshane

    psychoshane Active Member Full Member

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    Jeffries fought black fighters on his way up, including a man who beat a young Jack Johnson, but once champion he toed the color line. I don't think he was afraid of losing to Johnson as he was of being hated for giving a negro a title shot.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    These are voluntary defences.

    If McVey is #1, Jeffries looks silly, if he isn't it's up to Jeffries, basically. It only seems odd if Jeffries is being offered silly money, and considerably more than he is offered as standard.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    All his defences were voluntary ,there were no ratings , no official bodies in the US ,so no mandatories. Finnegan ,and Munroe had one essential qualification, I think you can guess what that was.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    As you like it:

    These were the equivalent of voluntary defences.

    Jeffries met the fighter who had the biggest groundswell of support more often than not.

    McVey is most definitely not amongst those men.
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    If I remember fight reports of the Johnson-Mcvea fight in question, neither looked good to the majority of observers. I will have to dig it up later when I have more time.

    One would certainly think such a ballyhooed fighter as McVea would have been a far superior opponent to some of the scrubs Jeffries chose. But then Jeff stated he could not handle the smell of Negroes, a scent which he claimed got him halfway to being KO'd. His enlightened thoughts, not mine.
     
  12. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    It wouldnt be unusual.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Given that Jeffries stated he lost money defending against Munroe and Finnegan was a nobody, I don't see where the groundswell of suport comes from?

    "In his first contest of the 20th century he faced relative novice Jack Finnegan who was outweighed by 50-60 lbs, the Brooklyn Edge described Finnegan as looking like a boy when compared to Jeffries. The fight would be stopped in the first round after Finnegan had been down 3 times in quick succession".


    "Jeffries was matched with the relatively unknown palooka Jack Finnegan at the Cadillac Athletic Club in the old Masonic Hall at First & Layfayette in Detroit, Michigan. Finnegan's sole claim to fame was a previous quick knockout at the hands of Jeff's rival, Gus Ruhlin. When Jeffries pummeled and knocked out his victim in less than a round it proved the perfect hype for his fight with Corbett, which took place just five weeks later " .

    Not much ground well of interest there.
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    You are right that Jeffries was generaly guided by public oppinion in choosing his title defences.

    I honestly think that there was a short period when a head of steam was building up for him to fight McVea.

    Another thing that people never factor in with black challengers like Martin, Johnson, and McVea, is that if Jeffries had not been opposed to fighting them in principle, they would not have continued taking high risk fights once they had established themselves as the obvious challenger.

    They would have sat on their rankings, and likley navigated a sure course to a title shot.

    If Martin is white, he never fights Armstrong.

    If Johnson is whaite, he never fights Hart.

    If McVea is white, he never fights Johnson.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There was a lot of media interest in the Munroe fight.

    In a bizarre way, it echoed some of the arguments we hear on this forum e.g. "this will be the first time Jeffries will be fighting a man his own age and size".