Jim Jeffries -vs- Riddick Bowe

On the vague film that is available, they do not throw many straight punches. Jeffries was bigger relative to his era than Lennox Lewis was to his; he would have profited greatly from fighting tall and throwing long, straight punches. But he fought like a little guy.

I think a looping overhand right would be the earliest punch. I cannot back this up with documentation, but it is the punch that comes most naturally, and when people who have never been trained to fight have to fight, this is the punch they will use most.

Anyhow, i rarely saw Jeffries throw a straight right hand.

In what fights can i see Johnson using glove blocking effectively? I see him do it rarely. He keeps his hands in a ridiculous position (for gloved boxing, for bareknuckle boxing it's great). He usually leans backward, sticking his arms out to intercept punches. This definitly doesn't work against skilled gloved boxers who will take it apart with either combinations, straight punches or hooks. It is no coincidence that out of the hundreds of great boxers we've had since, none of them consistently uses this stance and technique. Because it doesn't work. Ali used to do it quite a bit in his second career, because he, like Johnson, relied a lot on reflexes. But watch how easily a good hooker like Joe Frazier nails him with the left hook over and over again. Keeping your right glove glued to your cheek is a much more effective defensive stance.




Indeed they slipped much more than blocked. And that works better under bareknuckle rules because less punches are thrown (unlimited rounds, wrestling, chance of breaking hands) and few combinations, but relying solely on slipping is not gonna do it against a "modern" boxer. A guy like Chris Byrd is absolutely great at slipping, but he has to use glove blocking a lot too, or he won't survive. Not against bigger guys, anyway.

Jeffries certainly wasn't green the second time he fought Fitzsimmons. But alright, you have a point there and i agree that those rules gave smaller fighters a better chance.

You may be right here. Bowe never showed that he stayed on the outside when it was the best thing to do. But should he automatically lose that? It is well known that Bowe has a great uppercut and inside game. Jeffries is very durable, but he proved that against tiny guys who were also old. Bowe is bigger than Jeffries and much more talented than any big men he has ever fought. Jeffries did get hit plenty (as did Bowe).

 

The film of Corbett is especially good at showing mostly straight punches. In fact, in the 1880's many boxing manuals didn't even include round blows. Corbett didn't invent them, but the typical punches were lead straight left and lead straight right.

The round punches came into general use later--Tommy Burns even comments on the crouching, hooking "American" style replacing a straight-punching, straight-up "English" style.

It may be the earliest punch, but it's not the earliest one recorded. It isn't as if people were just learning how to punch when Jeffries came on the scene--they had been boxing for over 200 years, and Queensberry Rules had existed for over 50. "Sparring" with gloves dated from Broughton's time, over 160 years back.

Aside from this, the right hand was (along with a left lead) the most common punch in boxing manuals from 1800 onward. There can be no question that Jeffries knew how to throw one.

I believe he uses it in most of the fights that have made their way onto Youtube, and a few highlight reels.

Byrd's hand positioning is actually somewhat similar to Johnson. Hands far out and relatively low, with a tendency to bat at punches coming in.

That aside, I would not argue that Jeffries and Johnson are completely modern. They are, however, modern enough to fight Riddick Bowe, who is vulnerable to exactly the sort of inside game that they like playing. If Jeffries wanted to play the outside game against Bowe, then he would lose. But slipping is probably enough to get him inside.

After all, Tyson and Patterson's guards are also fairly useless for blocking. Great for throwing punches and staying compact, but not for intercepting punches thrown at them. They got along pretty well with just slipping.

Yes, you're right about the second time. The "green" argument only holds for the first fight.

There are no guarantees, of course. There is a big chance that Bowe will beat Jeffries on the inside--it's just that, of the two, I like Jeffries' chances better.

Looking at the Johnson film, Jeffries did have to get nailed with a lot of uppercuts to be put away--and that at 35 years old, drained, and with his opponent using tiny gloves. If Jeffries can shove Bowe effectively, he will have a better chance, since Bowe couldn't pirouette into an uppercut while moving backward like Johnson could.

 

Wow 50/50 on the poll here..

Some good stuff in this thread breaking down fighting styles and the evolution of boxing in general in regards to punch selection ...

 

Then underlined is true but except for Ruhlin ,Jeffries was fighting much smaller,older men and several of them were coming out of extended retirement .How would he fare against a bigger prime man who was excellent inside? Its a bit different making a 172lbs , under 6 foot, 39 years old man who hadn't fought in two years push you away ,and trying the same move with a 26 years old guy who is 6'5" and around 230lbs.

 

I didn't realize that this was a fantasy role player forum.

 

Worth repeating.

 

Where have you been?? These guys have Corbett boxing circles around David Tua.

 

If Bowe had trouble vs Golota and was hurt often by legal punches, he's in big trouble with Jeffries.

Bowe was never good on defense, and likely didn't hit hard enough to hurt Jeffries, but Jeffries hit hard enough to hurt him unless you think Golota punched significantly harder than Jeffries did.

Tex Rickard said Jeffries was the hardest hitter he ever saw, and that includes Dempsey.

Bowe was actually a carefully managed fighter who was only at peak performance for a few fights. His manager Rock Newman had a match with Tommy Morrison offered after Morrison defeated Foreman. Newman backed out. Bowe did not fight Lewis either, he avoided him and dropped a belt. There was a talk of Bowe vs Tyson, but we never saw that either. 0-3 on Bowe facing punchers. Insert your own excuses for Bowe.

Jeffries via 8-10th round TKO

 

atsch:-(

Pretty sad you must create false hoods to make a case for the guy you want to win.

 

Anyone can file a lawsuit. How did it work out, do tell!. Unless he won it, it means jack. Rock Newman ( Bowe's manager ) was a psycho type and was attracted to trouble. He has no credibility. Also a bit racy.

According to Morrison's manager, Bill Clayton Rock Newman dropped out of the possibility of the match happening.

PS: I think Bowe would have beaten Morrison.

 

total missmatch, bowe would humiliate him like johnson did, jefries was an overrated bum who just fought smw and lhws its like he looked the big bad monster, he was not even a puncher despite 4 idiots think. jefries should not be even compared with a mediocre like sonny liston

 

Bowe hit hard enough to hurt anybody,he doesn't have to ko Jeffries he could do enough damage to get the fight stopped.
I'd say Bowe's defence was as good as Jeffries, he never finished up with a nose broken multiple times or a cauliflower ear,despite having nearly twice as many fights.. Nor was he cut to bits by a near 40 years old 172lbs man who was coming out of retirement.
Bowe faced Hide and Gonzalez ,both excellent punchers.
Jeffries was a grinder as far as power,,and he was hitting on smaller ,older men for the most part. Bowe stopped big heavyweights.

 

I would pick Jesse Ferguson over Jeffries.

 

:rofl the funny thing is that maybe i would as well

 

After Johnson publicly undressed Jeffries and f*cked him up the a*se. Rickard said Johnson was the greatest fighter he had ever seen!