Jimmy Ellis vs. Eddie Machen

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by William Walker, Aug 15, 2020.


Page 1 of 3
  1. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    Eddie Machen at his most aggressive, as in the Billy Hunter fight vs. the Ellis of the fights with Martin and Bonavena. Both men at their most aggressive. Both great boxers, but Machen has a clear edge in power. Do both get a fast start together and make a war out of it, or do they both respect each other's ability and one of them ekes out a dull decision (which seems unlikely on Ellis's part), or does Machen assume the role of the puncher and Ellis of the boxer, in which case we have one of the ideal matchups on our hands, and will still be in for a helluva fight? Your thoughts?
     
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    #1
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

    51,166
    25,392
    Jan 3, 2007
    Not sure myself. I suppose it would have been a close match
     
    mr. magoo, Aug 15, 2020
    mr. magoo, Aug 15, 2020
    #2
    William Walker and Richard M Murrieta like this.
  3. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,626
    1,891
    Dec 2, 2006
    not sure Machen has an edge on power.
     
    mattdonnellon, Aug 15, 2020
    mattdonnellon, Aug 15, 2020
    #3
    Reinhardt and Richard M Murrieta like this.
  4. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    I take it that Jimmy Ellis is now your favorite fighter. He had his talents but he could not beat the top tier no matter the time period
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    #4
  5. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    Eddie Machen was not a puncher by any means of the imagination. He was kayoed by Ingo on Sept 14 1958 in round 1, and he went 12 rounds with Sonny Liston on Sept 7 1960, losing to the Bear on points. He was thoroughly beat on points by Floyd Patterson on July 5 1964. He did lose in his bid to win the vacant WBA Title bid against Ernie Terrell on March 5 1965, Terrell won a 15 round decision. On July 14 1966, he beat a very green Jerry Quarry on points, the next year he was stopped by Joe Frazier in 10 rounds. Jimmy Ellis was talented in the mold of Muhammad Ali but not as quick of footwork and speed. Jimmy won the WBA Title in April 1968 by outpointing Jerry Quarry in 15 rounds. If Joe had entered the tournament things may have been different. But I see Ellis outpointing Machen too, Jimmy is no Ingo.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    #5
  6. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    What makes you say that?
     
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    #6
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  7. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    He was more aggressive than Machen though, who evidently let a few matches slip out of his grasp for lack of aggression. Never a problem that Ellis encountered. No, Ellis is not my favorite fighter, although I have always found that he was in entertaining and interesting fights.
     
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    #7
  8. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    You should see him knock out Nino Valdes and Billy Hunter. Those knockouts will change your mind. He had a lot of other knockouts over good fighters as well.
     
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    #8
  9. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    He was entertaining but if he had encountered a very hungry prime Smoking Joe Frazier in the WBA Tournament in 1967, he could have maybe encountered possibly a Karl Mildenberger, How do you think that Ellis would have done against a tough southpaw like Karl, who gave a prime Ali a very tough fight?
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    #9
    William Walker likes this.
  10. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    But Valdes was not an Ingo or Liston, not even a Patterson though.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    #10
  11. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    Good question. Depending on whether Ellis boxes him or tries to put him away quickly, it could be tough, or it could be easy. Obviously, outboxing Mildenberger was no easy feat, and I would wager that the fight would last as long as Mildenberger's fight with Ali before Ellis would stop the German. However, if Ellis goes for the kill, I think he could stop Mildenberger very quickly. Mildenberger was just not that good, and Ellis beat far more credible contenders than Mildenberger. If Ellis attacked quickly and right away, Mildenberger's southpaw stance really wouldn't matter much, esp. since Mildenberger opened very slowly.
     
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    #11
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  12. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,901
    9,152
    Apr 9, 2020
    I realize that, but I think power is judged by the eye rather than the opponent. When Machen knocked Valdes out, the power Machen possessed was clear.
     
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    William Walker, Aug 15, 2020
    #12
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  13. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    Very true but most of Ellis wins were against middleweights before he moved up. Ali did hit harder than Jimmy, he tagged Karl with straight right hands to deck him. Ali also took a better punch in his first title reign, Mildenberger hit him with a terrific shot to the liver. Maybe Ellis wins, but he even might face another boxer, Thad Spencer first. Who knows.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    #13
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,626
    1,891
    Dec 2, 2006
    Oscar Bonavena
     
    mattdonnellon, Aug 15, 2020
    mattdonnellon, Aug 15, 2020
    #14
    Richard M Murrieta likes this.
  15. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Now Deceased 2/4/25 Full Member

    22,635
    30,409
    Jul 16, 2019
    I agree but he lost very badly to a smaller Ingemar Johansson in 1958.
     
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    Richard M Murrieta, Aug 15, 2020
    #15
    Reinhardt and William Walker like this.
Page 1 of 3