Jimmy Ellis vs RJJ @ Heavy 15rds

Foot speed as well.

 

Yeah, now they will start saying the video from Patterson's epoch was in its infacy and doesn't show his handspeed enough. He looked fast against slow heavyweights, but comparing his handspeed to Jones, he's no faster than James Toney, for example.

 

You make a good case, but I like Ellis and by ko.

 

You all may like him as much as you want, that doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have a single meaningful KO win on his record. That's like me saying, Young Griffo could KO a smaller Terry McGovern if he chose to try for a KO.

 

I don't think much of Jones's chin and he has how many wins at heavyweight on his resume? Not to mention meaningful kos of heavyweights. Ellis dropped Bonavena and while not as fast as Jones , he was no plodding Ruiz, he has the capabilty to get that quick right home on Jones and when he does it's good night.

 

You probably don't think much of Ezzard Charlez' chin for the same reason? Oh, wait, you don't, you don't think his losses at 35 years of age or later should count against his chin. Floyd Patterson was chinny, how many times did Ellis get him with his right hand and drop him? Once again, you can come up with a lot of explanations like that, they don't change the facts I pointed out, and the choice of his win by KO over Jones is *stupid* plain and simple.

 

I've been polite to you, though we disagree, do you think being insulting bolsters your case?
When Jones' lack of fundamentals was exposed as he aged and his reflexes let him down, it was apparent his chin was not stellar
No heavyweight hit Jones until he fought Ruiz who was no puncher.
Save the rudenesss for your friends, if you have any.
Be a **** on your own time.

 

Whatever. When people choose to ignore logic and facts whatsoever, sometimes I choose to tell them so outright.

 

But from the safety of a keyboard,continents away.

 

If you read what I wrote, it's wasn't even directed at you in particular. I consider the choice of Ellis win by KO stupid, not the people who make it stupid. I call them biased. There's no logic. Floyd Patterson knocked Ellis down, not vice versa. That's ignored completely with an argument that Patterson and Ali had fast hands and Ellis did more or less good vs them, so speed wouldn't be anything new to him. Patterson was picked the victor by the majority of reporters, and the spectators made threats to the referee so he had to leave the ring with the help of the police. I wouldn't exactly call that doing good, regardless that Ellis had received the verdict.

 

Willie Pep was knocked down by guys like Hogan Bassey and Sonny Leon at the same age as when Jones lost by KO. Does that mean he had no fundamentals either? Ray Leonard was slaughtered by Terry Norris at 35. Who was Ezzard Charles losing to when he was 35 in 1956? Duran lost to Robbie Sims and was knocked down by Juan Ferreyra at 35. Hagler was getting hit a lot by Mugabi at 31. Hearns lost to Barkley twice before he turned 34. Whitaker turned 35 shortly before Trinidad. Etc. Etc. I guess none of the above had any fundamentals, depended only on reflexes and were *exposed*. Actually they were getting hit cleanly *much more* often at 35 or younger than Jones was, and it didn't take Joe Louis' accuracy, precision and timing to reach their chins.

 

Ellis isn't fighting Floyd here, he's fighting Jones. The premise that Jones chin deteriorated overnight whne he reached a magical 35 is flawed, he never had a top chin ,but his reflexes disguised the fact for years.

Ellis hits hard enough to ko him, and has quick enough hands to do so , imo . I find that an entirely reasonable argument. I don't call you stupid for disagreeing , but I do call you boorishly rude for spitting out your dummy because others disagree with you.

 

Take a look at the list of IBHoF inductees, you can select only the ones you think were good technicians, and look at what their career was like by the time they were 35 years old, how many of them were getting knocked down or knocked out all a sudden by mediocre opponents.

Ellis fought Floyd Patterson, who was slower than Jones and was chinny, and Ellis was unable to knock him down even once, and was knocked down himself. This wasn't even prime Patterson. Where was this Ellis' hard hitting and quick enough hands in that fight, that would miraculously appear if he fought Roy Jones? This is not reasonable at all.

 

Pep was getting knocked down because he didnt have the legs to get away from shots any more and he was 36 years old not 35.

Pep had 229 fights when he faced Bassey, that's a serious amount of mileage, how many had Jones had when he started getting clocked?
Leonard had been retired for an extended period.Charles had MS.

You talk about logic and stupidity, I'd zip it if I were you.

 

Jones was getting knocked down or out because he didn't have the legs anymore since at least the 1st Tarver fight. It's not like he was having a walk in the park the previous 10 years, almost every bout being a title bout vs top10 contender or champion, and moving up to heavyweight and back to 175 certainly took a very heavy toll that wasn't unlike Pep's having so many bouts. Wow, 36 is so much older than 35. It makes a whole lot of difference! Did he get a lot of brain damage that his fundamentals had somehow disappeared due to number of fights?

Like I said, those are just a few examples out of my head. Go through the list on inductees and 90% of them were either retired or were gradually becoming punching bags for mediocre opposition by the time they turned 35.