Jimmy Ellis was a fledgling middleweight. Angelo Dundee turned him into a near great heavyweight

He had a great eye for raw talent and knew how to wring every last drop of potential out of his fighters? (most of the time)

 

He just ran around the place and pot-shotted here and there, getting exposed at world title level, Dundee knew nothing about boxing.

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well first off, Dundee didn't just notice the 'young' Ellis' ability & potential,

he obviously noted the boy's Stature & Age, knowing full well the lad was 'actually' going to be a L-HW then HW, in other words he was never 'actually' a MW...

then the hungry Training, Coaching and Mentoring would begin, because the desire & drive for most Boxing people was, after all, the pursuit of "the Greatest Prize in Sport!" the Heavyweight Championship of the World.

 

He had Ellis' chronically inflamed tonsils removed, which enabled him to gain weight.

 

All 4 facets of this statement are completely wrong.

 

He wasn’t “near great” IMO but If you’re wondering what Angie did he managed Ellis well and wrapped his hands "I love Angelo and I think he's great, but he didn't teach me how to fight." - Muhammad Ali - He didn’t add anything to Ellis as a fighter, I think Ellis was just a good middleweight who held the weight well enough that he figured he could outsmart some big dumb heavyweights for the bigger pay checks, he had some miscalculations and I think it was because he was to me seemingly an aggressive guy by nature but overall he did well for himself and got paid a lot.

 

To be fair Chuvalo, Patterson and Bonavena aren’t overall impressive heavyweight scalps looking at the bigger picture… I believe Quarry had a recent operation on his back to? it’s been a while since I saw the Ellis v Patterson bout but wasn’t it largely thought that the older Patterson won? If the only two really good fighters you meet beat you that doesn’t elevate you above anybody else other than who you already beat. If I fight ten novices and then George Foreman KO’s me I can go around saying “I only lost to GF in my prime” or “my chin was great, only GF cracked it” we stay stuff like that all the time here and it’s silly - Angelo was a connections guy, manager and hand wrapper he didn’t do F all for these fighters your listing besides the above… Willie Pastrano was taught by Whitney Esneault how to fight, Moore taught 80s Foreman, Leonard had Olympic coaches and Ali had his education from Chuck Bodak.

 

Ellis had incredible courage and a very sharp right hand , enough tl drop Bonavena twice ..

https://vault.si.com/vault/1968/05/06/right-on-the-money

Ellis, to be certain, could not gamble in any way against Quarry. He has too much past (a lachrymose career among the middleweights of short money and much punishment) and he does not have enough future. He is 28 now, and he has been a black fighter for over a decade. To be a black fighter, even the least carnivorous of managers will agree, is a "stomped down life, a stone-hard road." Few pamper the black fighter. He has to fight from the moment he steps in a gym. It is an axiom among white fight managers: "You have to find out early if the black boy has any dog in him."

 

For anyone who doesn't know the story of how Ellis & Dundee teamed up:

After Ellis had compiled a so-so record as a MW, he wrote a letter to Dundee asking to be trained by him & concluding w/ the word "Help!" Dundee replied that he would be willing to train Ellis, but Ellis would have to relocate to Dundee's base of operations in Miami, which Ellis ultimately did. Dundee then discovered than Ellis suffered from chronically inflamed tonsils & had them removed. After that, Ellis filled out into a LHW & eventually HW, & went on a winning streak. His breakout win came when he flattened heavily hyped LHW/HW contender Johnny Persol in a single round, which broke Ellis into the WBA's HW tourney & the rest is history.

 

This. Dundee was very good at adjusting to the needs of each fighter he was training or managing. Ellis had a lot of talent, but outside of Kentucky he wasn’t much of an attraction besides being Ali's sparring partner, so it made little sense for most managers to invest much time or money into him.

Dundee took on the challenge and risk of training and managing Ellis and they made a great team. Dundee promoted Ellis to the hilt and believed with the right handling Ellis was a heavyweight champion in the making and was proven right against a lot of naysayers.

Here is a piece by Sam Lacy, who was sports writing royalty. He and a lot of other sportswriters thought Dundee was crazy to promote Ellis as an upcoming champion.

Hard to believe

Listening to Angelo Dundee the other day, I found myself more disillusioned than ever by boxing, if that be possible.

...Angelo has long been regarded one of the few beacons in a sport that is admittedly beset with double-double-talkers and dealers.

...Then he pops off about his new heavyweight hope, Jimmy Ellis...

"He's the best fighter in the world," asserted the former manager of Cassius (Muhammad Ali) Clay ...

"He's always been the best, all he needs is to believe in himself" ... Ellis, in the eyes of this writer and I'm sure to many others in my group, is strictly a second-rate sparring partner who is going nowhere, and not even getting there fast ... And after listening to Dundee urge Ellis to believe in him-self, one is shocked to discover how hard it is to now believe in Dundee.

And on the subject of Clay, it is interesting to note that the Florida Sprotswriters Association included the deposed heavyweight champion's name among the 13 nominees for enshrinement in the Florida Hal of Fame at Jacksonville.
https://imgur.com/55gQGFQ

Here is a piece with Dundee reflected on Ali's development and on the most important things a fighter needs to be successful when developing.

Ali was Always Dedicated

"He's the greatest," Dundee believes, echoing Ali's favorite self-pronouncement. "I started with him when he was fighting six round prelims. Muhammad was the first guy in the gym and the last guy to leave. He was a nice kid, full of pep and ginger. He wanted to learn."

And Angelo Dundee is a teacher. He calls the Miami gym he and his brother Chris run a "school." Fighting preliminary bouts are "taking lessons."

"The most difficult thing about a young fighter is his emotion, Steadiness, consistency, that's what wins."

Ali used his talent consistently enough to become heavyweight champion of the world. What else could a professor of boxing ask of a pupil?

"Muhammad's responsible for my son going to college. He's made it possible for me to put a pool into my backyard." Dundee noted.

The short, spectacled man from Miami was in Ali's corner for nearly every "lesson." He saw the education pay off in a series of lopsided title defenses as the then champion made every serious contender in the 1960's look about as competent as the opponents from his prelim days.
https://imgur.com/DZ80rMf

 

Yeah, that was a pretty impressive streak of not getting one syllable right.