Jimmy Young Replaces Ali In Zaire...

Difficult to say mate but not likely. I think it was the Shavers rematch that gave him the confidence, culminating in an easy points win over Lyle, who was due (and received despite the loss) hit title shot- then Jimmy went on a great run of impressive fights.

 

True, Young wasn't decked but he was badly wobbled a couple of times in that 7th. Foreman's knockdown was more an off-balance thing than anything. His gloves touched the canvas but that was it (it was official nonetheless), the right hand that caused the knockdown actually landed on George's shoulder/back when Foreman was charging in.

 

Did I say that? How well Young did against boxers like Ali, Neumann and Ocasio is irrelevant towards how well he'd do against Foreman. Young-Foreman is a more relevant fight and Young dominated him, arguably winning every round except the 7th. Young also, when he was focused, beat big punching heavyweights. His chin and skill tended to negated their power and strength.

I assumed you hadn't seen it considering your facts about the fight were wrong.

 

Young also did very well at close range against Foreman though. In fact, most of his best punches against Foreman were short counters that were thrown when Foreman didn't have space to throw. Foreman, like most sluggers, was a strictly mid-range boxer. That's a very difficult requirement to fulfill against a boxer with ATG footwork like Young.

If you look at Foreman-Young, it's not cutting off the ring that is his problem: it's cutting off the ring and being able to land punches without missing and getting hit with perfect counter-punches. All Young needed to do was to keep moving just slightly so that Foreman could never set his feet in the way he liked to do, so Foreman's punches generally were just arm punches. Foreman's power was all about his feet: when he set them properly he could turn the toughest boxers into yo-yos; when he wasn't properly set he was a decent but not big puncher.

That's why Young didn't need to dance with Foreman. Jumping around the ring like Ali did in the 1rst round in Zaire was a waste of energy. Ali didn't have the footwork skills that Young did: he was fast and skillful but not as skilled as Young could be when he was "on". To control the distance in the way Young did is extremely difficult in terms of skill, but takes a lot less effort than either staying against the ropes or dancing.

 

I like Foreman to win via KO. Two big mental points are the key here.

1. Foreman has never been beaten and still has the mental edge i believe was oh so important to him first career.

2. Young has the mental baggage of Foreman decimating both Frazier and Norton in frightening fashion and cannot draw any mental assurance from Ali whupping George's ass.

Basically George doesn't believe he can be beaten, and Young has sure never seen anything to the contrary.

:good

 

Go away Kurgan. You're the last peep i want debating vs me.

 

If he had his number he wouldn't have suffered a near stoppage in the 7th. Having someone's number is basically never being in any trouble against them whatsoever, like, say, Foster vs Tiger. I think if 1973 Foreman managed to tag Jimmy like he did then he'd have finished it, especially if it had come earlier, although style-wise Young always has a good chance of victory.

 

That what I was talking about the other day with Joe Frasier, in as much as he'd lost that air of invincibilty by the time he fought Mohammad Ali again.

 

Still: If you're the defensive fighter you want as much space as possible and to be able to move with as little effort as possible. Otherwise it favours the guy that would rather see that you both stood still in front of each other. For me that's pretty obvious.

I like to move when I sparr, and if I get too choose whether to fight a stronger, more powerful opponent in a big ring with a fast canvas or a small one with slow canvas, the choice is an easy one.

 

Not necessarily. James Toney is a defensive boxer who is at his best at close range, for example.

It all depends on (a) how you want to move and (b) how much room you need to do that. Obviously, a mover like Young would prefer a mover's ring, but it isn't as essential when you have a boxer as skilled as Young who wasn't a "dancer". Plus, the ring in Zaire wasn't exactly a phone-booth type ring, though given the way Ali fought after round one it might as well have been.

 

I don't think so. If nothing else, wouldn't a 1974 Foreman (who had such an image of being a destroyer) have encouraged Young to be that much more cautious? If you win 11 out of 12 rounds, then you have the other man's number.

Also, let's not exaggerate how hurt Young was in the 7th round. He was nearly KNOCKED DOWN, not nearly KNOCKED OUT. Foreman staggered Young once and didn't land with any big clean punches after that.

 

:rofl

My daily life is almost entirely composed of debating in essays, tutorials and conversations, so I get a fair bit of practice.

 

Pre-Zaire Foreman was better than the 77 version though. He even started neglecting the jab when he became champ when he felt he could steamroll opponents. Then he seemed to do away with it all together- and he had one of the bets jabs in heavyweight history in his pomp. Also, he staggered Young twice, and he did land after the initial blow, a few times. Foreman clearly wasn't at his best in 1977- so Young "having his number" at all times is bull****. Although I agree Jimmy has a decent chance nonetheless.

 

Yes but if i read you right i'd hardly say he ever had it anywhere NEAR to the extent Foreman had. Foreman was considered by many to be invincible, as had Liston before him at a certaij stage. Isn't it incredible that the same man would defrock BOTH of them.

 

Why am i not fukking surprised