Jimmy Young vs Best version of Post-Prison Mike Tyson

Couldn't agree more

 

Young... better than Holyfield? Defensively, yes, but when it comes to the art of fighting -- you know, throwing punches with any sort of authority and tack -- Young does not even compare.

 

Young loses this fight. His style is tailor made for Tyson, even at this stage of Mike's career (post-prison). Tyson would be up close throwing those quick combinations and Young will ultimately fall. And Young with his apparent disdain for throwing anything outside of weak jabs and powerless two-punch combinations has about a zero percent chance of stopping Mike or winning a decision.

 

"Young is better than Holyfield"
I'm straining to be polite here. Nope, I can't do it. ARE YOU INSANE???

 

How'd Holyfield do against Ali, prime Foreman and Norton? How'd he do against Lyle?

 

The Ali who was in the worst shape of his career vs Young ? a prime Holyfield would definitely outpoint that version of Ali.

Well posters here have told me Foreman wasn't the same fighter vs Young so was he at his peak ? Holyfield could definitely beat the Foreman who fought Young and badly faded down the stretch.

Holyfield vs Norton would be very close fight but Young didn't beat Norton so i don't see what your point is ?

Lyle ? Holyfield would TKO Lyle.

Holyfield also wouldn't lose back to back fights to Ocasio infact Holyfield stopped Ocasio in his 16th professional fight.

 

That was not the worst shape of Alis career. He was going 15 rounds consistantly against some of the best HWs ever and always managing to win.

Foreman narrowly lost to one of the most skilled HWs ever in his first decision in 7 years. If the fight was 10 rounds and he didn't get the point deducted thats another draw. And he didn't even score a knockdown. Not that Foreman wasn't going through some stuff and was 100.00% but the reason I consider the Ali fight a fluke isn't cause he lost its cause Foreman would have done better any other night. Young almost never got knocked out so its not some dammning indictment Foreman let Jimmy Young go the distance and narrowly lost. Ali and Norton narrowly won and Lyle was easily beaten twice. Getting knocked down at the end was a little embarassing and might have done some damage to him mentally but it was more of a stumble against the ropes during a desperate hunt for a knockout. He'd never been trailing hunting for a knockout in the last round of a fight before and he was understandibly frustrated.

Ocasio was undefeated and a HW when he fought Young a decade earlier. And if those fights were longer than 10 rounds Young would have probably won. I always say Young needed 12-15 rounds to reach his full potential.

Just like he TKO'd old Foreman and old Holmes. Holyfields CW power did not translate at HW especially against larger opponents.

 

Ali weighed 230 pounds vs Young which was his highest recorded weight of his career outside of the Berbick fight. Anyone with any common sense and with a good pair of eyes could see Ali was out of shape and not in good condition vs Young that's plainly obvious.

Narrowly lost ? Foreman lost a UD by the scores of 118-111, 116-112, one judge had it close but that's a pretty clear win. Who cares what the fight would've been scored if it was 10 rounds ? that's irrelevant. In the actual 12 rounds they fought and not a fantasy 10 round bout Foreman lost clearly.

Young one of the most skilled Heavyweights ever ? that's based on your "opinion" that's not a factual statement. There's been plenty of skilled Heavyweights i don't see that Young really stands out anymore than the 80s Heavyweights who underachieved.

Louis
Witherspoon
Bowe
Usyk
Byrd
Holmes
Ali
Liston
Tunney
Tyson

Are all Heavyweights i consider more skilled than Young off the top of my head.

And as i keep saying Foreman was considered in his prime Ali was considered past his prime so i don't see how you consider it a fluke ? there's nothing to suggest in Foreman's career that Foreman could ever beat a good version of Ali if a prime Foreman couldn't even beat an Ali who was considered past his prime.

Ali as i said above was at his highest recorded weight outside of the Berbick fight and Young stunk the joint out and couldn't make an impression vs a very poor version of Ali. Young had a respectful performance vs Norton, but still lost because Norton was the aggressor and showed more willingness to win the fight which is why Young never reached the top or won a championship. Quarry also beat Lyle easily is he highly regarded H2H aswell ? Lyle was a solid contender but he is a bit overrated on this forum.

The problem with your arguments is that there is alot of ifs buts and maybes. The fact is Young had his chance to win a title vs Norton and failed, he had a chance to get another title shot vs Holmes and failed vs Ocasio and he had two attempts at it.

Ocasio only had 11 pro fights at the time and had fought no one of note so don't try and exaggerate that "Ocasio was an undefeated fighter". Let's have some context that Ocasio was a mere novice and on paper Young had no business losing to Ocasio let alone twice.

Not stopping Foreman or Holmes even old versions who were still extremely durable and were never stopped in there comebacks is hardly something you can discredit Holyfield for.

As for Holyfield not showing power against larger opponents ? he KO'ed Douglas with one punch who was 240+ pounds, granted Douglas was out of shape but that's still an example of KOing a much larger opponent. Holyfield was also the first man to drop Mercer, Bowe, with one left hook who both had considerable weight advantages and were both durable opponents. He also decked Tyson with a single uppercut so i disagree Holyfield didn't show power against bigger opponents. I'm not saying power was one of Holyfield's best assets because it wasn't but he still had underrated power and could hurt you with a single shot.

 

Jimmy Young was not close to being one of the 50 or so greatest heavyweights ever to step into a ring.

I will go there, Ingemar Johansson and Jim Braddock were better than Young.

 

Buster Mathis Jr’d

 

McGrain had him #33 based on mostly resume with a dose of H2H in there. While i agree he is being silly with Young among others Jimmy had a pretty fair record.

He's an interesting case.

 

I figured you'd forgot Ronny. A level or two of extra activity in some fights and Young would have been held in quite a bit higher regard i think.

 

I'm going to pull you up around about here.

Ocasio had fought 38, yes just 38 professional rounds going into the brace of fights against Young. 10 of those rounds were in his fight prior to Young. His record pre Young is tosh as seen below. Undefeated? Undefeated over 11 fights vs nobodies.

The claim that Jimmy needed 12-15 rounds to reach his full potential is loose. He dominated Lyle 10 rounds both times) from virtually start to finish, went with or better than Norton in the early rounds and more than held his own early with Foreman.

https://ibb.co/kq80SFg

 

Exactly. Just think if he would have stepped on the gas a bit more he would have run the gauntlet of the 70' heavies excluding Frazier. He would have the scalps of Lyle Foreman Ali and Norton. Had he done what he was talanted enough to do he would be thought of much differently than he is today. Underacheaver to me.

 

It would have made a huge difference. I think Ali was well ahead on the cards but if Jimmy did a fair bit more there would have been more controversy again. Admittedly there is a minor chance if he went harder at certain times he may have been matched. He lacked a bit of the winning mentality, going out and taking it instead of competing for it. He could certainly have had a better career.