Jimmy Young

Forget the fact that Young had no amateur experience, was thrown to the wolves and had grueling fights with the likes of Shavers 2x at the very beginning of his career.

You're over simplifying things to say the absolute least.

 

I would concede that Young was matched tough in his first pro fight,his opponent Jimmy Jones had a 11-1-1 record ,but the wins were over no bodies .
Young met Shavers in his 11th fight and again in his 19th not really the beginning of his career.His first fight with Shavers was not a smart match by his manager ,Young was relatively inexperienced, while Shavers was a veteran, but apart from meeting Randy Neuman who had a record of 18-1-0 I dont see where Young was" thrown to the wolves."
I dont think I have oversimplified things .
I have tried to look objectively at Young's record.
He was a clever, cagey ,defensively adept boxer, who lacked power at top level.
To my way of thinking he was not prepared to "go the extra mile" to ensure a victory, in other words he didnt want it enough.Thats my take on it.

 

It's irrelevent if he wasn't willing to "go the extra mile", that's a personal preference creeping into the equation when really his mindset and approach to the game didn't mean anything. He was the fighter he was, and he was a hell of a fighter who beat some of the best in a star laden HW division.

 

No he doesn't have "legitimate wins" over them, that's the point. He has a legitimate win(singular) over Foreman, and then he has close LOSSES to some of them that some people argue could've gone his way.

Also, since when did this become "the consensus best HW division" ever? Last time I checked, it had a few standout legends who were considered old or on the decline, and then some of your typical decent-but-unspectacular contenders.

 

No it isn't, that's a major flaw if a fighter has that.

 

Well no, he didnt beat some of the best did he?
He beat a 35 year old Lyle , and had a great win over a confidence wrecked Foreman . He lost to everyone else of any stature.
A very good fighter yes .
I originally got in to the thread because some one called Young great, and I dont think he was.
I tried to show he wasnt ,but no surprise, I didnt convince you.
Your opinion is as valid as mine Russ . :good

 

The near consenus is that he beat Ali, along with Shavers, along with Norton. He should have been a champion multiple times over.

I think the 90% majority who feel he won all three might be onto something.

 

And it has nothing to do with what he did accomplish. It's pretty irrelevent talking about what Pernell Whitaker COULD have accomplished if he had a punch, isn't it.

 

Ali was 34 years old untrained ,unfocused and unfit 230lbs, he was not a great fighter at that stage of his career, if Young was that special he should have beaten Ali clearly ,he did NOT ,and he wasnt.

Ali was 34
Norton was 34.
Lyle was 35.
JIMMY YOUNG ,THE NEARLY MAN.
I COULDA, SHOULDA ,WOULDA.
BUT, IN THE END I ****ING DIDN'T.
NO PRIZES FOR COMING SECOND.
" I coulda been some one ,I coulda had class, instead of being a bum which ,lets face it Charlie, is what I am".

 

Brando at his best.

 

And a novice Rod Steiger is just as good,imo.
How about Lee J Cobb and Karl Malden too? Fantastic ,

 

If you are good enough to beat Ali, Shavers, Lyle twice, Foreman, Dunn, and compete evenly with Norton then you are great. Not many can say they have accomplished what Jimmy did

 

Being one of the most avoided, difficult to fight fighter with one of the best resumes from a super talented HW division = medicore fighter at best.

 

Smart arse