JMM - Best Mexican Fighter Ever

He did in reality.

 

He did not. Not only did he not actually win the fight, he also out-weighed and injured Floyd by 20lbs and still couldn't win clearly. Floyd won the first, barely, and then schooled him in the rematch which was on a level playing field.

Floyd won. Twice.

 

I don't think for a miniute Chavez beats Mayweather at LW, he never beat anyone nearly as good. Not to mention this is irrevevant to the thread.

The real Q is: who beat better opposition Chavez or Marquez? I'd argue Marquez but it's close

 

Oh yes he did.

 

Exactly.

 

Who did Mayweather beat nearly as good as Chavez at LW?

 

Really should make another thread if we're going to continue this, but:

He didn't but neither did Chavez. We know Chavez clearly lost to Whitaker, same happens against Mayweather. Way too quick of hand and foot for Chavez

In reality Mayweather got the W, Castillo gave away too many early rounds, about 4 or 5 of them, Castillo won the rounds he won bigger but was less accurate so didn't win enough rounds.

 

Marquez to me is a certain top 5 Mexican fighter. I have him number three behind Chavez and Olivares. Unfortunately he has a lot of bogus losses that if he got the wins people would view him higher. He unified two classic weight classes and got great wins at 130 (where he became the man) and at 147 (KO of Pacquaio). Great longevity and consistency.

 

Personally I like Chavez's victories of Rasario, Camacho, Taylor, Ramirez, Smith,Laporte,Martinez Over any of JMM' s
victories including Pac. (basing this on the way he defeated Pac,last fight was the proverbial fluke fight)
Or, Sanchez's victories over Nelson, Lopez, Gomez, Laporte, Castillo, Ford over all of JMM's victories with exception
to Pac.
Also Olivares, Zarate, Saldivar, Canto are better because they fought in era's when their
wasn't multiple World Titles per weight class. A fighter had to face the best competition
just to get into the top ten to get a title shot. With few exceptions to well connected fighters.
JMM' is the best Mexican fighter the past 20 yrs,(And this can be debated because of Barrera and Lopez)
But the greatest Mexican fighter of them all....... Not in my opinion. Mexico has produced better fighters...

 

That's a very rose tinted outlook though

Also no way in hell that Pac 4 was a fluke. He'd been robbed at least twice, knew he couldn't leave the fight in the judges hands at trained for a KO which he executed. Watch the pre-fight footage, he's throwing 1 punch bombs on the speedball and focusing on bulking up. He'd already put Pac down with a similar punch earlier in the fight.

It's the greatest single win in history for me, when you consider Pacquaio is the puncher between them

 

Ok, but that's your opinion, you said I'm looking at this from a "Rose colored perspective" but when you you write
this is for you the" single greatest win of all times". Maybe it's you looking at it from a "Rose colored perspective'.
Especially when one considers this fight was past prime for both men, and well past their best fighting weight. You
say Marquez was robbed of victory twice, some feel he lost the fights you say he was robbed of,,,, perspective.
Either way outside of the "Flukish" ko of Pac, neither man dominated or assertive themselves over the other in
3-of 4 fights.
This is the reason I in MY opinion call Pac's ko lost to Marquez a fluke. It happened , theirs no debating that,
but of the thousands of punches those two men threw at each other, not one came close to being that damaging.
At least that I recall, and I saw all 4 fights. But like I've said this is my opinion. You have yours, we just see it from
different ways, not necessarily through a "Rose colored perspective'.

 

It's rose tinted when you're essentially painting many fighters from one era as being better than the top 3 P4P of this era just gone. Even boxers who unlike the boxers we're discussing weren't multi-weight champions. It's not realistic. I mean Ramirez over Pac and Barrera, seriously?

I think anyone who knows how to score a fight and isn't a Pac fanboy had Marquez winning 2 and 3. 3 was very very wide, it wasn't close. Nothing flukey about it. First 3 fights he thinks he can win a decision. After nigh on shutting Pac out in the 3rd he knows he needs a KO to win so goes to work on doing just that.

As for it being the best win ever. It has to be, when else has the supposed second best fighter in an era left for dead like that? You might have a win over a great of an era, but not as emphatic as that. So Duran beat Leonard but it wasn't as dominant. Mayweather beat an older Pacquaio boxing on the backfoot, something Marquez did in the 3rd fight. Leonard beat Hagler in a close fight. Frazier beat Ali in a 9/6 or 8/7 fight.

The only time a top 2 P4P fighter has been decimated in that way that springs to mind is Honeyghan-Curry. But Curry won't go down as top 3 P4P of his era, Pacquaio will.

Which win comes close in terms of top 3 P4P of an era in that level of dominance?

 

So basically what your saying is only your opinion matters? And it does,
but only to you.

 

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more.

 

Remind us again why Laporte, Rosario and Ramirez are better wins than Pacquaio or Barrera

Also is it Lonnie or Buck or Verdell Smith your picking as a greater win than Pacquaio? Because none of them were top contenders when Chavez beat them