JMM's counter-punching useless against Floyd, but effective against Pacquiao. LOOK!

Pac isn't the same fighter, and you know it (even though you won't admit it). If Pac does get apast Cotto then this fight is bound to happen. I'm not even saying he beats Mayweather, BUT I bet Mayweather takes plenty of punishment. He will actually be in a *fight*.
Mayweather is stylistic nightmare for Pac,.......but you know...Pac is a stylistic nightmare for Floyd! Pac is a nightmare in everyway except for being the bigger man, but he still has plenty of power. As for the gifs you posted. You know:
#1 Pac isn't that kind of sloppy fighter anymore
#2 If Pac were throwing those punches at Floyd his hands are so quick I bet he'd land 50%, and he's so relentless he wouldn't have stopped throwing there!!

The only way I see Mayweather beating Pac is to stop him (doubt it happens), or hold him every 2 seconds to a decision. Pac showed you in his last fight what happens to people who like to hold him though....

 

one of my favorite fights. i have to agree with you and understand what your pointing out. his difficulties with counters and skilled boxers.

Floyd being a fighter with the best skillset in the game currently defensively and offensively would beat the limited but very game Pacquiao.

 

OOOHHH!!!!! That "pull-counter" is so smooth!!! Floyd, Roy, and Ali are the only people who can pull that move off with that kind of skill. Not the first time i've seen it, but damn!!!

 

no matter what weight his fight jmm was @ it was clear that floyd was in a much higher class...floyd woulda put on a similar clinic had he made the weight...i do knock floyd as a pro for not making the contracted weight as well but it was clear from the fight the weight wouldnt matter

 

Counterpucnhing ????? It was Mayweather who was counterpunching.

The whole fight, JMM had to initiate the action while the bigger with longer reach fighter had to be the counterpuncher. Genius.

If I were JMM, I should have employed a Winky Wright Clam shell defense and let the people boo. By that, hopefully, Mayweather wouyld try to initiate the action, but that is still a wishful thinking because it would then become a potshotting fight.

Beristain employed the wrong fight plan in them being the aggressor.

 

I was thinking the same thing, but no way in hell JMM fights like that.

Pac can do that but will get booed along with Floyd. But then again Pac wont do it.

 

You've got to be freakin kidding us???

Its only for fighter of the era of Pacquiao wins......the matchup is a free shot for Pacquiao at immortality but does nothing for Mayweather.

Its like a quarterback drawing the defense off-sides and getting a free shot at the endzone.

Mayweather needs to fight Welterweights to solidify his standing as fighter of the era.......if he ends his career decisioning JMM and Pac, my opinion is that it does very little for Mayweather's legacy.

Marquez and Pac are stock short fighting as Welters......and to say beating them would merit Mayweather fighter of the era is hillarious!:rofl:rofl:nut

 

The opposite of what you say is actually true.......a fighter like JMM who's superior in his boxing and technical skills usually translate as he moves up.....

.....why did'nt it translate vs Mayweather you say?.....its because Mayweather is just as skilled......the difference in their matchup was not the skill, but the speed, quickness, and strenghth.

.....skilled fighters beat bigger fighters with less skill all the time.
Its much harder for an aggressive type who relies on punching power to move up in weight and be able to be as devestating at the higher weight than he was at the lower weight.

I'm not sold on Pacquiao having carried his power with him at these higher weights.......as he has'nt knocked out a prime opponent fighting in top form......

.....and lets not forget that Pacquiao has'nt even been hit clean against either DLH or Hatton.

The Cotto fight for Pac will really provide some answers as to Pac's punching power.......Cotto has'nt looked all that great since being beatdown by Margarito......but he's not getting wobbled as a welterweight like he was when he was severely dehydrating at 140 lbs.

If Pacquiao knocks out Cotto in brutal fashion, I will really be impressed.


Cotto should really provide us with some answers as far as how good Pac really is above the lightweight limit.

 

Are you kidding me?
You have to be physically as strong or stronger than your opponent for the turtle shell defense to work.
......you need that brute strenghth to hold off and prevent your opponents shots from breaking through.

The turtle shell would have been suicide for JMM against any Welter.

The wrong game plan?:huh
There was'nt a right game plan as far as Marquez beating Mayweather at welter.

As far as I'm concerned he used the right game plan to give him the best chance to win, and it just was'nt good enough.
The only way Marquez had a chance to win was to have made Mayweather come to him......thats just nearly impossible with a fighter who fights as cautious as Floyd, and who also happens to be the faster quicker fighter.

Marquez was niether faster, quicker, or stronger.....so how in hell is he going to force Mayweather to go to him if Mayweather just does'nt want to????

.....a fighter as good and as skilled as Mayweather can be had.
People say that its his defense that seperates him and makes him a great fighter.......but its not......its his defense in conjunction with his elite caliber speed and quickness........

.....let me give you an example......James Toney imo is just as skilled both offensively and defensivel as Floyd Mayweather....

What got Toney beat? Speed, quickness, and strenghth......his name at the time was Roy Jones Jr. and he was prime.
Roy Jones is'nt nearly as technicallly skilled as James Toney.....

What other fighter beat James Toney, and he was'nt nearly as skilled as he was?????....his name was Samuel Peter, and he did it with size, brute force strenghth and punching power.

My point being is that every elite fighter is beatable......but that elite fighter is'nt going to get beat by an opponent who does'nt have any physical advantages over you.

Marquez did'nt employ the wrong plan, he just did'nt have any physical advantages to employ against a fighter who was just as skilled.

 

:nonoMost of this forum said it from the start......this matchup needed to be at 140 lbs for JMM to have a realistic chance to win and for Mayweather to get proper credit.......
....theres loads of threads beforehand stating that this matchup at the weight it was being fought in was'nt conducive to giving Mayweather proper credit, so that really should'nt suprise you.

......you really look pathetic in stating that class was the difference maker against an opponent that had only two fights as a lightweight, and was now moving up two weight classes from that, to fight someone with the multitalents and physical gifts of Mayweather.....

 

Pacquiao fought a Marquez at a weight he was effective at. Mayweather made him move up to 147. So Mayweather would beat Pacquiao because he beat a Marquez at welterweight as opposed to Pacquiao eeking out a decision at 130 against the same fighter? You would be better off arguing styles and not common opponents seeing as when Marquez fought Mayweather he was at a heavy disadvantage and when he fought Pacquiao it was a level playing field.

 

JMM @ 144 mehh... JMM @ 135 nice...

 

There are only two ways for JMM to fight Mayweather : be the aggressor or be the counterpuncher.

Scenario where he was the aggressor and we all know that he has the shorter reach and the fact that JMM is better as a counterpuncher rather than an aggressor.

Scenario whwre he waits for Mayweather to inititiate action and he counters, while basically employing a more open Winky wright defense. The most likely case is that the fight would be a hell boring, which is the purpose of the plan. JMM will probably be beaten, but regardless what plan he employs, he will still be beaten. The purpose is to make Mayweather look bad, as we all know, this is the coming from retirement fight of Mayweather. By, that, he might take more risk to look good. It is actually more of psychology.

The way JMM fought Mayweather is that he made him look very good. The writimg is on the wall already that JMM lost a step or two and only you Divac failed to realize that (I ask you before where you think JMM skills are and you stated close to 100 percent as when he fought Pac 1). There is no way that JMM would win when he even had to struggle against Diaz.

JMM is a great fighter but at this time, he just jump a bridge too far, all the odds are stacked agaionst him, age, speed, power, size. Remeber he is not fighting a past it Hoya.

What is basically JMM's forte????? Counter-punching. That was taken away in this fight because he became the aggressor. Had he made Mayweather look bad by allowing him to potshot, instead of initiatng the action, there might be urgent need for may to look good especially if the audience would start to boo, thus become more risky and thus, more error prone.

Remeber that in this fight, the burden to prove greatness lies more in Mayweather because he is expected to really win this fight.

The outcome will probably be still the same but one thing is sure, JMM will not kiss the canvas unless Mayweather decides to take more risk instead of doing his usual potshotting.

 

You've got to get one thing straight......Marquez is no employer of the turtle shell.......and he did'nt show up against Mayweather to make Mayweather look like a coward or anything else.....

The sole purpose for JMM was to employ the best tactics he knew that could get him a win......he fought to win, and tried both being the aggressor and counterpunching.......the end result was that a fighter with Marquez' disadvantages was not going get Mayweather out of his normal and predictable game plan.


This is the reason why I've always pushed for Mayweather to fight Margarito.......there is size, workrate, strenghth, power, and chin advantages there for Margarito........skill is'nt always the end all of a fight......sometimes things such as the ones outlined can put skill to slaughter......just ask Miguel Cotto.


.....and before some of you nutheads start pointing the finger of Margarito cheating......the thing is whether he was or was'nt......nobody knew that before the Mosley fight....sure as hell Mayweather did'nt know and he ducked Margarito outright.


Interesting style clashes like Margarito fierce bruteness vs the brilliant pure skill of Mayweather more often than not brings out and highlights the brilliance in one fighter or the other........and are great style clashes to see.