Joan Guzman- Over rated??

Exactly. People should attribute this to their opponents, not weight draining, illnesses, or injuries.

Another one that gets to me: Toney didn't look the same against Danny Batchelder as he did when he fought Iran Barkley.

 

A Mexican fighter like Soto, who didn't have much of an amateur career and has constantly been improving in his pro career has no real "prime".

Why do you think his workrate wasn't the same and he wasn't comfortable unloading punches the same way he was unloading them against the one dimensional Juarez? Juarez's style isn't very difficult for a good counterpuncher, Guzman's is extremely difficult for anyone. I would actually say Soto was a slightly better fighter when he fought Guzman than when he fought Juarez.. he was more experienced and had more confidence. Guzman was just way too tricky and skilled for him, he couldn't figure him out. He fought extra tentatively because he was getting countered himself worse than ever in his career.

Soto is in his 20's and he hasn't gone through any wars that would affect him greatly in between the Juarez and Guzman fights.. unless you think his toe to toe epic battle with Bobby Pac took a lot out of him.

 

He's been calling Pac out ever since he was at 122. Guzman wants to fight the best, but no promoter wants their star fighter fighting him.

Marquez couldn't outbox and counter Pac? Did you watch the fights? Guzman wouldn't need to "outfight" Pac, he would fight him defensively and use his movement very effectively. His style is about as bad as it gets for Pac. And if JMM had enough stamina to beat Pac this year (or have a close fight with him if you believe Pac really won), Guzman will too. Plus, Guzman has a better chin than Marquez and will be able to take Pac's punches when he needs to.

He is extremely underrated. On the ESB, most people don't think very highly of him and outside of the ESB it's 10x worse.

 

To me, Marquez and Pac can't be considered the best either because they have never fought Guzman, who is clearly a big threat to them and a true elite fighter. I would favor Guzman over everyone 130-135, that's why I consider him the best. Again, until it's proven otherwise, I will continue to think that.

Guzman doesn't get hit "a hell of a lot more then JMM". Did you watch JMM vs Jaendang? How would you rate his defense in that fight compared to Guzman's defense against Jaendang? Anyways.. this doesn't matter.

JMM didn't just have "moments and rounds" where he fought well. He outboxed and countered Pac for a large majority of their first fight and at the very least, more than half of the Pac fight. Most big Pac fans gave JMM 6 rounds. More than half of the posters here had JMM winning. Even past his prime with fading reflexes/stamina, JMM had a very significant amount of success outboxing and countering Pac effectively over 12 rounds (AND he closed stronger than the younger Pac), it's a fact.

Guzman's chin is better tha JMM's and that's proven. He has never even been slightly affected by any punch in his entire career. He's been hit flush by Barrios, a puncher at 130 and he took those punches like they were nothing. Pac isn't going to be hurting him with single exchanges. He also isn't going to be landing on him enough to wear him down to the point where Guzman gets completely broken down. "Guzman has never been in there with a guy on Pac's level".. blah blah blah.. Pac has never been in there with someone that has Guzman's style and talent.

Guzman's only weakness is his stamina, but it won't be a big problem against Pac. He knows how to conserve his energy throughout a fight and he will make Pac fight more tentatively than he's ever been in his career at 122+ (I'm sure of this). Pac will have HUGE problems with Guzman's movement and footspeed. His balance issues are still present and he's open to good counterpunchers. Guzman's handspeed is still great and his punches are harder to see coming than JMM's. His style will puzzle Pac and you will see Pac the most frustrated he's ever been since the Sanchez fight.

One other thing about Pac to note. He's on the decline now. His stamina isn't what it was when he fought Barrera for the first time. Although he has improved technically, he's become less of the machine like fighter that he was back then. Pac will only win rounds that Guzman gives away.. maybe about 3 rounds. He will not be hurting Guzman and he will be giving him easy targets all night. His style is extremely easy to adjust to for Guzman right from the start and Guzman has the chin/confidence/toughness to not "fight scared" against Pac like many fighters have in the past to a certain degree.

It's not a pick-em fight. Guzman should be heavily favored. He has been the worst possible matchup for Pac for years now and if you analyze the matchup without the silly mentality that "Guzman has never faced an elite fighter, so that makes him inferior to Pac/JMM in some way", then you should clearly see why Guzman is a nightmare for Pac.

Now explain to me how JMM "couldn't outbox or counter Pac" again..

 

How about everybody give Huki some credit for this EXCELLENT analysis.:thumbsup

 

ROFL