Joan Guzman- Over rated??

I dont agree, Soto is a helluva fighter. Guzman is simply avoided by many of the top names.

If he had a more crowd pleasing style maybe he could get bigger fights.

 

Exactly. I think it had more to do with his style and the fact that guys didn't want anything to do with him. Plus he has a low kayo percentage and that never helps when dealing with the mainstream public....but one has to also take into account that his last half dozen opponents have been iron-chinned (and not pushovers either). He will destroy Arthur though; I am 90% confident that Guzman will outclass and KO him

 

Well Id rather see Pac face Guzman rather than Diaz. Of course a third fight with JMM would be my first choice.

 

Sometimes fighters under limited promotion, from lower tier countries and weighing a heavy risk/reward for names can't get what they need as you know.

Guzman was very much more lethal at 122, he vs. Vasquez or Larios back in the early 2000's would have been wipe outs for Guzzy IMO, his style, power and chin down there was some of the best on film and those guys have their hands full with lesser fighters. Before conclusions get jumped to, Vasquez vs. Gonzalez is an example, I think everyone would agree Guzman's more potent at 122 than Gonzalez and Gonzalez was well winning before getting KOed in a Vasquez rally.

Then at 126 he couldn't get anything and it's still very hard for him to get a match.

Soto and Barrios are two low pay/risk guys and Guzman took them. I can't imagine Pac or JMM taking Guzman for lesser money when he's a real danger you know.

You mentioned that even though you favour JMM and Pac, that they'd be toss up matches. Well, a toss up match for less payment is not attractive to the marquee names.

Hope that explains a few things. It's a pity that a lot of excellent fighters go unnoticed, especially in the lower divisions where little coverage is made and a lot of corruption goes on... probably a lot of guys we have no clue about. People had no clue about Mijares' ability prior to Arce and some of his decision's may have been suspect as mexican judging is highly suspect, I made a thread about some oddball scoring's if you want to check that out, inconsisency in the scoring.

 

He has common opponents with some people, if we'd like to take a look at some of those -

Agapito Sanchez with Pac. Pac had a rough fight with Sanchez, Guzman dominated and stopped Sanchez.

Tersak with JMM. JMM dominated and stopped the guy, but got hit a fair bit and got knocked down also. Guzman simply just dominated him and toyed with him. To be fair, Molitor dominated him even better than both, but JMM went for the kill, which could explain the lack of D.

Barrios with a prime Freitas. I don't think Barrios has declined, but Freitas scored a come from behind KO. Guzman easily defeated Barrios, but happened to gas and drop some rounds in attempt to stop Barrios early. Depends on how good you think Freitas was, I think he was top level, but shy of elite. Irregardless, I don't think Barrios is a bad fighter at all.

So, all included, the opposition including the nice outclassing of Soto, who was by all means ranked as the number 3 in the division as Barrera retired after the 2nd Pac fight, it went as Pac-JMM-Soto-Guzzy....

Well, he knocked off the 3rd to get the 3rd position.

I don't see anything wrong with his opposition from a standpoint on what he could get. Soto and Barrios aren't in high demand because of risk/reward and Guzman took them.

I think all of this above proves that he is at least on level with the P4P ranked JMM and Pac and those fights should be made definitley. I'm sad he's now 32 and the clock's ticking but what can you do, the sport is a business instead of a blood/honour sport like it used to be.

 

This poll is so close

 

Yeah, but Pac with his exciting style was given a serious jump in promotion more so than JMM, who had to seriously work his way up, but still has more TV appeal to the average fan than Guzman. JMM signing with golden boy jumped him into his two biggest fights post-Pac 1.

It's not comparable. The promotional issue's with Guzman are pretty extensive, as he used to be exciting at 122 and had mainstream appeal, this guy should have been signed with a big promoter and got some matches with overmatched names at 122 and he'd have a legacy by now most likely, even with a few losses.

He dropped out of the Katsidis fight, but that's 1 instance and not a big deal and I agree with you about Arthur, a British Domestic cream puff and a glorified journeyman. These Brit Domestic's build nice records but had they been on the world scene, they'd have horrible record's.

Guys with losses on the world scene like Miguel Huerta, are 2x what most of the domestics are, yet when it comes to Khan, who's fought only domestic cream puffs aside from the undersized B- St Clair, I just don't rate that competition well. I think we can agree that throwing Khan in with Huerta would lead to him being KTFO, well same with Arthur, so it's just an attempt to display Guzman's skills and I really think he'll stop him.

People were defending Khan's next opponent Gomez....:rofl

Huerta is nothing more than a decent gatekeeper with spoiling ability.

But all in all it makes you appreciate real world fighters when viewing some of the british domestic cream puffs and makes me laugh at those hyping Khan, who struggled with Limond, who's not even a serious contender in the Brit scene....:rofl

But back to Guzman, every fighter makes a few mistakes, he should have fought and torn Katsidis to pieces, but he made up for it by jumping in with Soto, who JMM went for Jaurez over, JMM also went for Juarez over Barrios because Soto and Barrios pose more potential threat to him and nothing was going to mess up that Pac rematch, even though he needed a good tune up to display his skills with...

See a pattern here? I pick JMM to KO Soto and Barrios, but they'd have posed more trouble than Juarez. Soto especially, his rangy style is more difficult for JMM, who likes those pressure fighters a lot, but in no way do I pick Soto for an upset.

The pattern is that Guzzy took them both and displayed well in both. Gassed against barrios, but showed a total class above him.

The politics in boxing sadly keep a lot of great underrated talent beneath where they should be.... and I personally find Guzzy very entertaining as I like skilled fighters who give good offensive and defensive manuvers.

I don't find crudeness entertaining, I like refinement. Style doesn't matter, Cotto is a very refined technical pressure fighter, his fights are enjoyable because he's precise as an example. Pac's crudeness doesn't appeal to me, but I don't underrate him, I just call things as I see it.

Guzman 8-4 if it happens, IMO. Guzman when in boxing mode, is similiar to a mini-James Toney if you will and that style eats up guys who come right at it, Huki highligted a lot of his advantage on Pac.