Joe Bugner vs Cleveland Williams

Williams by decision. Too fast for Bugner.

 

It sure didn't offset anything Ron Lyle had. Williams had a pretty good jab himself too. Ernie Terrell had a better jab than Bugner, and I thought Williams worked his way around it fine. No way Bugner had a better jab than Terrell.

I dont think Williams would knock him out, I think williams would outpoint him. Bugner was technical, but he was stationary. Williams speed and athleticism might be too much for Joe. Also, Williams did knockout a 6'6 iron chinned fighter Ernie Terrell. So a Williams stoppage is not out of question.

What top contender did Bugner ever knockout? Williams' chin was only vulnerable against top puncher(which bugner was not). The only man to ever knock him out in his prime was Sonny Liston.

Doubt it, Considering Williams already beat a 6'6 fighter with a jab better than Bugner's.

 

I must confess to being very impressed by Big Cat - for two and half rounds against Liston - before the roof fell in ! he looked very dangerous indeed during that early spell , but did have the look of a sprinter, and Sonny was not trying to tie up Cleve, or nullify him, it was simply a stoneyfaced case of "you've had your turn...now try mine..." -
Bugner of course would be happy to clinch and Nullify, particularly early, Joe was quite mobile for a bif guy, and Cleve was not exactly known for his adroitness, Joe in his prime
did have an excellant chin, if in fact you could find it, Joe like to keep it at long range if possible, and that Pesky Jab is i think going to frustrate Cleve,

Put a young Cleve in with many opponents who troubled Bugner, and Cleve might well do better then Joe, but i think this is one of those fights that styles will favour the Long distence specialist, If Cleve's Power and intimidatory prescence does not gain him any advantages early, the odds are the pendulam will swing the the boxer more suited to the long distence, perhaps scrappy affair, its what Joe often did, and he would probably be more comfortable in the fight, perhaps with many clinches and little by way of fireworks, meandering along to a decision, Cleve on the other hand might become frustrated if he makes no early impression when fresh, and begins to get picked off by that pesky points pinching jab.

to be sure Cleve would not be up against a small Billy Daniels that he could Bully about, Cleve would i feel find "Big Joe" surprisingly strong and tough to manhandle, - Joe also had no stamina worries at his peak - so would be able to maintain what many may feel a negative safety first approach.

I think Cleve, much more the exciting fighter is a style victim in this matchup, i think The Big Cat catches a nasty Bug on this occassion

 

Terrells jab was vastly superior to Bugner's..and Ernie would have nabbed a decision over Joe easily. A very dull but comfortable decision.

 

I'm not so sure about that. Bugner always did better when punching up, not down, and he'd be able to punch up against the 6'6" Terrell. Also, Terrell didn't have the big-time strength and power that's necessary to back Bugner up. I'm not saying Bugner would win, but I think the outcome is a toss up.

As for Williams-Bugner, that's another good one. Possibly Williams's power is the driver here; his punch might have forced Bugner to cover up excessively for much of the bout. But don't forget, in his prime, Bugner had a pretty good defense, and could move well on his feet. So Bugner's boxing ability couldn't be discounted. Nonethless, I lean slightly toward Big Cat, by decision.

Regarding the guy who mentioned the Bugner-Lyle fight, have you watched it on YouTube? Most of the rounds are very, very close. Not by any means did Lyle dominate.

 

I'd be pretty comfortable in laying a big bet on Williams here. He's a clear step above Bugner.

 

Both mens best effords were losing ones, I fancy Joe to beat the overated Cleveland on a close points decision.

 

Right. Whole lot of substance to back that claim up.

Shaver's hardly devastated Bugner as well, that fight was stopped on a cut. Bugner was certainly fit to continue after a monster uppercut floored him.

Bugner had a great chin, that same uppercut nearly killed Jimmy Ellis, Bugner ate it flush and was right back up.

 

It would go to a close decision, with Williams possibly taking it as a shopworn Lyle did over Bugner, who could have certainly won had he shown a little more "fire".

 

I see Williams outpointing him. He showed against a better boxer than Bugner in Terrell that he was a very capable boxer with a good jab and the ability to avoid one himself.

 

I don't necessarily disagree, I just don't feel Cleveland Williams is a level above Bugner. Doing as well as Bugner did in maybe the best HW division of all time while being lethargic and disinterested at times says something about the man.

 

True true. I very well may be over rating the Big Cat as he is a bit of a favorite of mine. I think he was a good fighter with a very impressive blend of power and speed who had a bit of a suspect chin.

Bugner isn't a puncher like Liston to really exploit his fatal flaw and isn't a boxer like either Machen or Terrell who Williams boxed on equal terms with. That's the bottom line and why I'm confident in a Williams win here. Just my opinion, amigo.

 

I'm not so sure Williams would find Bugner easier to deal with than Terrell. Remember: Terrell weighed 197-198 lbs in his bouts against Williams; prime Bugner was about 225 lbs. Bugner, although somewhat inferior to Terrell as a boxer, was much stronger and vastly more durable.

Don't forget also, that the Williams-Terrell rematch was a tough fight for Big Cat. The decision in favor of Terrell was not unreasonable. This result tends to invalidate Williams's kayo win in their first fight.

I wouldn't be quick to dismiss Bugner's chances against Williams.