Joe Bugner

Joe, never recoverd from ulric regis death. Now, he is really suffering. Read his recent biography, very interesting indeed!!

 

Bugner was as brave as hell, there was no quit in him, and was always prepared to fight just hard enough to prevent himself from being overwhelmed. but that's as far as he would push it. His priority was always to see it through and count the money. Winning was just a bonus. Getting through it. holding is own that's all he wanted. If he needed to hurt a guy in order to keep him off him he would do it. It does not mean he would risk following it up.

Frazier took Bugner to the edge, forced him to fight for his life. But it was still survival. He was not going to allow Frazier to push him any further in order to force bugner to win. He would fight hard enough to get a respite. Stay in the fight. That was the considerable limit of bugners desire.

I thought he beat Ron Lyle.

 

As a kid back in the '70s, I was a huge Bugner fan. I've always followed his career very closely. Ask me anything you want.

Bugner was good enough that he would have been a legitimate contender in any era. However, he was not good enough to have been a champ in any era. My guess is that Bugner could have held the title if he had fought in the years between Dempsey and Louis, and in the period between Louis and Marciano. Bugner was also good enough to have beaten Patterson and Johannson. He would have held a piece of the title in the '80s, '90s, '00s, and now.

Not under any circumstances could Bugner have beaten Holmes, Liston, Tyson, Lewis, or the Klitschkos.

Regarding how good Bugner was overall, I'd say he was a combination of excellent and only so-so qualities. He was unusually durable and he possessed impressive hand and foot speed. He was a very competent stand-up, orthodox boxer with good defense and a formidable left jab. His height, reach, and physical strength were assets. The downside is that Bugner could never really punch his weight and he couldn't fight well on the offensive. He may have been a little too muscle bound to put his punches together efficiently while on the attack. Bugner rarely threw hooks or uppercuts, and he was often forced into a defensive shell when under pressure.

Still, at his best, Bugner was a very respectable world-class heavyweight. Most people don't realize that his boxing ability and physical assets were more than enough for him to have beaten numerous 20th century champs if such hypothetical match-ups could have occurred.

 

Bugner-Coetzee could have gone either way, although I lean toward Bugner by close decision. Bugner-Cooney could also have gone either way, but I think Bugner would have won assuming he survived Cooney's early round onslaught (i.e., if the fight continued past the fifth round).

Bugner-Sanders could have gone either way as well. It's possibly that Bugner would have had trouble with Sanders southpaw style. Either way, I think this fight goes the full distance.

I believe that Bugner would have beaten Morrison, either by decision or later round stoppage. It would be a very tough fight, though.

 

It's important to recognize that Bugner's peak years were 1973 through 1976. Prior to 1973, Bugner was still a neophyte, developing skill, acquiring experience, and filling out physically. After 1976, Bugner was generally semi-active, and in that period he rarely fought his best.

Relative to the other 1970s heavyweight luminaries, I would place a peak Bugner in the rankings, based on ability, as follows. Keep in mind that the '70s may have been the heavyweight division's most competitive era, based on depth of talent:

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Frazier
5. Norton
6. Young
7. Quarry
8. Lyle
9. Shavers, Bugner, Tate (tie)
12. Coetzee
13. Ellis, Bonavena (tie)
15. Chuvalo

 

Correct, and the 29 year old, 29-1, supposedly "slow smokeless Joe Frazier with little killer instinct" who Bugner went the distance with, did later take out Quarry in 5 and Ellis in 9.

 

Thanks great summary.

 

Grumpy, many have noted that after FOC Frazier was never the same and his body showed it. I watched the Bugner-Frazier bout live and was very surprised at what he had lost, it wasn't good.

 

Joe had a little more umph against Jerry in their second go but then Quarry's body was soft by this time succumbing to a body punch. Against Jimmy the second time around Joe was as much the old Frazier as he could be, but in the Bugner bout he was slow and smokeless and when he held back the punch to the half down Britain you wondered if he'd ever get the fire back. There was no resemblance that night to the smoking Joe who took out Quarry in '67.

 

I have to agree with you again, I wondered at the time what would happen if Bugner simply opened up on Frazier once in awhile. While I thought Lyle won it was more because of what Bugner didn't do then what Ron did. Kind of an enigma wasn't he?

 

As above, Bugner was the only man to go the distance with both Ali & Frazier, and no amount of forensic dissection on your part or anyone else's will ever change that :good

 

Nothing personal, but I completely disagree. Your perspective implies that Bugner was a slouch of some sort...that he didn't really care about winning.

Concerning Bugner's not-so-aggressive approach to many fights, I think the explanation is found in his style. Bugner, instinctively, tactically, and athletically, excelled at defense an jabbing. That's why he held back...he felt most comfortable letting opponents come at him, rather than attacking them.

Eddie Mustafa Muhammad (Eddie Gregory) was another fighter like that. Sometimes these defensive stylists concede too much initiative to opponents an blow fights, but that's just the way the sport goes.

 

Bugner was not as well prepared for the Lyle fight as he could have been. In the previous 18 months, he had fought only once, a one round KO over Richard Dunn. Bugner broke his hand in that fight and was laid off for months as a result. Six months later, he got the Lyle fight, but twisted an ankle in training camp only weeks before the match. He couldn't request a postponement of the bout because arrangements had already been made with NBC television for the broadcast.

For nine rounds Bugner was slightly ahead against Lyle. But then the combined effects of conditioning problems and Lyle's body attack manifested in the 10th, 11th, and 12 rounds. Lyle's late surge won him a close but well deserved decision.

Bugner and Lyle were very closely matched fighters, in terms of ability.