joe c fighting without injury to hand would the ko's keep coming

KillSomething · Jul 16, 2010

^ Well there we have it. Apparently Calzaghe sucks and couldn't ever hit hard. Glad we know this now so we can all move on with our lives.

dubace · Jul 16, 2010

depends on if he kept fighting bums.

Interceptor · Jul 16, 2010

bigdan said: ↑

joe fought knowing he could damage his hand at any time. so he kept to point scoring skilled jabs..good or bad tactic
Click to expand...

Joe was never a puncher...stop bullshitting yourself.Sven Ottke had better punching tecnique than Joe

Joe actually fought the LOSER of an elimination bout:rofl:rofl:rofl

Rock0052 · Jul 16, 2010

He'd have had a few more accumulation stoppages- Lacy, for instance. It's not like he was ever an Arthur Abraham-type puncher, but he would've been that much more complete without the hand injuries.

Even as it was, nobody was walking through his shots, he could open up some nasty cuts, and even Hopkins didn't want to trade with him, so he still had functional power at the world level. Just not spectacular.

horst · Jul 16, 2010

bigdan said: ↑

joe fought knowing he could damage his hand at any time. so he kept to point scoring skilled jabs..good or bad tactic
Click to expand...

I don't think he ever had good power, only decent power, and he was certainly never ever what you would call a powerpuncher. Joe's KO record in world title fights is not great, and the general standard of opponent within that record is pretty dire, so it's hard to argue otherwise. He rarely ever KO'd anyone, relying instead on overwhelming opponents with volume and getting the TKO. If you look at early fights vs Sobot and Veit, the stoppages were because of volume, not damage brought on by power. I disagree with this thread. A decent puncher in his younger days, a powder-puff puncher by the time he got to lightheavy, but never a strong or good puncher.

Rock0052 · Jul 16, 2010

Brit Sillynanny said: ↑

Joe had 2 KO's out of 32 - that means 30 TKOs - and of those a far larger than normal amount were ridiculously quick ref stoppages - and most all of them occurred against a parade of lousy domestic fare. Go get his tapes. Look at the condition of his opponents and YOU ask yourself if you'd be willing to get in the ring with them - I think many guys wouldn't hesitate to fight the majority of this **** poor group of out of shape, non-athletic stiffs that ventured to get in the ring but discovered they had barely any athletic talent and largely showed up just to get a check.

The first twenty-two of his KOs/TKOs was a collection of bums, near bums, and out of shape/past it fighters. After that ... well .. there aren't any without controversy after Eubank - at least none against a fighter of consequence. No fighters with much of an actual pulse (and that is what we are referencing if the desire is to rate Joe to the standard of great fighters).

Joe was a decent sized SMW. He was somewhat better in the aggregate than the weak comp he faced. He was in a horrible second rate division and he still KO'd virtually NO ONE.

I don't know what BHOP has to do with Calzaghe and yet so many want to address BHOP as if he can be used as some justification or vindication for Joe's choices or career.

After BHOP's prime (end of the 90s) he was a middle aged man cutting to make middleweight. The sacrifice was in his strength and power relative to his physical prime years. If he had taken the normal course and moved up earlier - instead of staying far too long protecting his defense streak - he would have done what all maturing athletes generally do. Add size and power to compensate for a reduction in foot speed, agility, and movement. Instead he stayed at middleweight and was comparatively less physical from the early 00s onward.

If you are evaluating the version from his mid-30s through to his move up to LHW - then you are looking at a WAY WAY past prime fighter. Hop was more aggressive and more innately physical through the end of the 90s.

A prime BHOP with 8 lbs of muscle to 168 would have stopped Joe in '97, '98, '99.

BHOP was a more concise, direct, skilled, and talented puncher than Joe. Nothing was more evident than comparing the two in the ring when BHOP was 43. The less coordinated guy flailing and missing with both hands was Joe. The older more talented guy without any endurance was Bernard.

In his prime, BHOP would have gotten the stoppage because he would have landed first because he was better puncher - and his inside game would have finished the job - one way or the other (i.e., KO, ref stoppage, or corner towel).

Retired compatriots often say a lot of complementary things about their brethren as time passes and social events bring them together. Joe caught a lot of punches with his grill in that '97 fight and didn't fight another fighter as decent as that past prime version of CE until he fought a far far past prime BHOP in '08. That speaks volumes ...

In '06 Chris did say this about their fight ...

"Listen, Calzaghe is easy to hit with right hands. He's busy enough, fast handed southpaw but he's a bit European, quite square and rigid, you know? He's far from unhittable, in fact he's easy to hit with the right (hand). Just a basic, straight right hand lead he doesn't seem to see, but of course, you have to have a bit of speed ..."

"I also found him (Calzaghe) fairly easy to hit with body shots ...," added the lisping former champ.
Click to expand...

You forgot two things: Joe is the superior athlete, and Hopkins can't deal with speed.

horst · Jul 16, 2010

Rock0052 said: ↑

You forgot two things: Joe is the superior athlete, and Hopkins can't deal with speed.
Click to expand...

Hopkins over the age of 40 couldn't deal with speed allied to stamina/workrate. What 40 year old in history could??

Hopkins in his early-mid 30s is a different ball game.

The_President · Jul 16, 2010

Joe was pure D ****!
Move on with your life and stop hyping this; KING OF THE BUMS!
Next to James Toney, Calzaghe looks like the Bum he really is.

Interceptor · Jul 16, 2010

Brit Sillynanny said: ↑

Joe had 2 KO's out of 32 - that means 30 TKOs - and of those a far larger than normal amount were ridiculously quick ref stoppages - and most all of them occurred against a parade of lousy domestic fare. Go get his tapes. Look at the condition of his opponents and YOU ask yourself if you'd be willing to get in the ring with them - I think many guys wouldn't hesitate to fight the majority of this **** poor group of out of shape, non-athletic stiffs that ventured to get in the ring but discovered they had barely any athletic talent and largely showed up just to get a check.

The first twenty-two of his KOs/TKOs was a collection of bums, near bums, and out of shape/past it fighters. After that ... well .. there aren't any without controversy after Eubank - at least none against a fighter of consequence. No fighters with much of an actual pulse (and that is what we are referencing if the desire is to rate Joe to the standard of great fighters).

Joe was a decent sized SMW. He was somewhat better in the aggregate than the weak comp he faced. He was in a horrible second rate division and he still KO'd virtually NO ONE.

I don't know what BHOP has to do with Calzaghe and yet so many want to address BHOP as if he can be used as some justification or vindication for Joe's choices or career.

After BHOP's prime (end of the 90s) he was a middle aged man cutting to make middleweight. The sacrifice was in his strength and power relative to his physical prime years. If he had taken the normal course and moved up earlier - instead of staying far too long protecting his defense streak - he would have done what all maturing athletes generally do. Add size and power to compensate for a reduction in foot speed, agility, and movement. Instead he stayed at middleweight and was comparatively less physical from the early 00s onward.

If you are evaluating the version from his mid-30s through to his move up to LHW - then you are looking at a WAY WAY past prime fighter. Hop was more aggressive and more innately physical through the end of the 90s.

A prime BHOP with 8 lbs of muscle to 168 would have stopped Joe in '97, '98, '99.

BHOP was a more concise, direct, skilled, and talented puncher than Joe. Nothing was more evident than comparing the two in the ring when BHOP was 43. The less coordinated guy flailing and missing with both hands was Joe. The older more talented guy without any endurance was Bernard.

In his prime, BHOP would have gotten the stoppage because he would have landed first because he was better puncher - and his inside game would have finished the job - one way or the other (i.e., KO, ref stoppage, or corner towel).

Retired compatriots often say a lot of complementary things about their brethren as time passes and social events bring them together. Joe caught a lot of punches with his grill in that '97 fight and didn't fight another fighter as decent as that past prime version of CE until he fought a far far past prime BHOP in '08. That speaks volumes ...

In '06 Chris did say this about their fight ...

"Listen, Calzaghe is easy to hit with right hands. He's busy enough, fast handed southpaw but he's a bit European, quite square and rigid, you know? He's far from unhittable, in fact he's easy to hit with the right (hand). Just a basic, straight right hand lead he doesn't seem to see, but of course, you have to have a bit of speed ..."

"I also found him (Calzaghe) fairly easy to hit with body shots ...," added the lisping former champ.
Click to expand...

:happy:happy:happy

DOM5153 · Jul 16, 2010

bigdan said: ↑

joe fought knowing he could damage his hand at any time. so he kept to point scoring skilled jabs..good or bad tactic
Click to expand...

Hes always had bad hands and hes had a wrist problem since he was about eight yrs old. I think his style of fighting really changed around the Reid fight in which his injury problems really came to a crisis point, he was sparring less and less by that point and i believe thats when he realised it was time for a change of style.

DOM5153 · Jul 16, 2010

The_President said: ↑

Joe was pure D ****!
Move on with your life and stop hyping this; KING OF THE BUMS!
Next to James Toney, Calzaghe looks like the Bum he really is.
Click to expand...

S whats your take on Joe's injuries or are you here to troll?

mattress · Jul 16, 2010

DOM5153 said: ↑

S whats your take on Joe's injuries or are you here to troll?
Click to expand...

He's a grade A troll

Rock0052 · Jul 16, 2010

Popkins said: ↑

Hopkins over the age of 40 couldn't deal with speed allied to stamina/workrate. What 40 year old in history could??

Hopkins in his early-mid 30s is a different ball game.
Click to expand...

I know Popkins, I just felt like giving a bit of **** to the Brit. :!::good

On a larger scale, I do think speed would always bother Hopkins even though we never got to see that theory tested during his prime (obviously, it would take more than just that to win over Hops, but it's a common link). He didn't really have the experience going into the first Jones fight, and he was considerably older by the time Taylor and Calaghe rolled around. But it is interesting to note that the same trait was shared by every man who beat him (except for his debut fight, but it's not like that one matters).

horst · Jul 16, 2010

Rock0052 said: ↑

I know Popkins, I just felt like giving a bit of **** to the Brit. :!::good

On a larger scale, I do think speed would always bother Hopkins even though we never got to see that theory tested during his prime (obviously, it would take more than just that to win over Hops, but it's a common link). He didn't really have the experience going into the first Jones fight, and he was considerably older by the time Taylor and Calaghe rolled around. But it is interesting to note that the same trait was shared by every man who beat him (except for his debut fight, but it's not like that one matters).
Click to expand...

Fair do's mate :good

DOM5153 · Jul 16, 2010

mattress said: ↑

He's a grade A troll
Click to expand...

:good

Log in or Sign up

joe c fighting without injury to hand would the ko's keep coming

KillSomething Boxing Junkie Full Member

dubace Well-Known Member Full Member

Interceptor Guest

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

horst Guest

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

horst Guest

The_President Boxing Addict banned

Interceptor Guest

DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

mattress Boxing Addict Full Member

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

horst Guest

DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

Log in or Sign up

Forums

joe c fighting without injury to hand would the ko's keep coming

KillSomething Boxing Junkie Full Member

dubace Well-Known Member Full Member

Interceptor Guest

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

horst Guest

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

horst Guest

The_President Boxing Addict banned

Interceptor Guest

DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

mattress Boxing Addict Full Member

Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

horst Guest

DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member