Joe Calzaghe, among top 25 Super Middleweight in boxing history?!

MaliSlamusrex · Feb 2, 2010

agree

kosaros said: ↑

Erm, Jimmy Wilde?
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punch13 · Feb 2, 2010

Joe Calzaghe clearly no.1, he gets a unanimous decision by several people.

des3995 · Feb 3, 2010

Brit Sillynanny said: ↑

The chasm between great talents and Joe is much wider than between Joe and Sven who had very similar careers. They fought similar comp, with similar results and benefited from advantageous conditions in nearly all of their fights. They both were opportunistic and took no chances and remain complete nobodies in the US. Neither KOd anyone (all of Joe's were domestic bums and the few that occurred later in his career were all controversial ref stoppages). Both fighters enjoyed a similar collection of back pocket refs and biased judges. Both were decent fighters who weren't exceptional athletes. If Sven had managed to tack a narrow win or two over a long in the tooth 40+ year old at the very end of his career he could have had an identical record and CV/resume.

Athletically Joe was a bit more nimble of foot with better hand speed but neither had an abundance of discernible power and struggled with most of the mediocre and average opponents they fought.

Joe is incredibly overrated due to ESB's "demographic" slant - and it is a population of internet sport fans (i.e., couch potatoes and scrubs) not knowledgeable real athletes. Take it from someone who has followed boxing a long time - starting with Ali/Frazier I on closed circuit in 1971, and has watched every single second of every single fight over Joe's entire career - the man struggled to get a narrow win over a way past peak weight cutting last minute sub in CE and then intentionally fought nobody (nobodies) for a decade. That was no accident. With Joe's frame he could have easily found his way to LHW if he was in search of legitimate greatness.

Any unbiased observer can see the difference between the elites and Joe. He stands historically near the top of the super middleweight division (WITH SVEN OTTKE) based upon his gaudy record. But, I rate him at SMW (I've got an earlier post which I don't have time to search for delineating the first 7 or eight in the division) between 8 and 10 based upon reality. I don't rate him at all if we widen the scope to the traditional middleweight/light heavyweight categories.

Of course, it must be acknowledged that ESB is loaded with kids that just LOVE Joe Calzaghe. But, it's a "demographic" thing as I've said. If you can't see the truth then that just makes you one more member of the ESB "I don't know **** about athletic talent and ability" club.

Even with boxing being completely out of favor for multiple generations now, the US is still a country that universally applauds great athletic talent and entertainment - no matter its place of origination. You couldn't find ten sport fans who have seen either guy fight who remembers them at all. They are complete nobodies. It isn't because they aren't nice people or good guys. IT IS because they were never special or extraordinary fighters. SIMPLE AS THAT really. Wishing for a different reality doesn't make it so - just as "undefeated" records have to be looked at to see the level of comp faced (i.e., "who was fought" and "when were they fought") - and wins over certain names lose their relevance if those names are collecting social security at the time of the so-called "victories".
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So,........ you're saying yes to the TS's question.:yep

Boxed Ears · Feb 3, 2010

I don't care how much you hate Calzaghe, to even suggest that he'd be outside the top twenty goddamn five is completely absurd.

RogerB · Feb 3, 2010

OK I defo rate Calzaghe as a top ten all time great , not my fave fighter , but outta respect i gotta give props ...furthermore if yu say Cal was not that good ...to remain undefeated for so long means the division has for 10 years ..been poor ..hmmm i doubt that

One Round · Feb 3, 2010

wtf, if you don't think he's in the top 25 SMW then you're a **** of the highest order.

DRMULLEN · Feb 3, 2010

jOE, IS A TOP 3 SUPER-MIDDLEWEIGHT ALL TIME.

El Cepillo · Feb 3, 2010

punch13 said: ↑

Joe Calzaghe ranks high among all-time super middleweight boxers during his 15 year boxing profession.

Does Joe Calzaghe deserve to be in top 25 super middleweight in boxing history?!

A good handful of superb super middleweights in boxing history, but I say Joe Calzaghe does make it in.
Click to expand...

Erm....

Joe Calzaghe is the best SMW ever. His career at 168 is head and shoulders above anyone elses.

Stupid thread.

Bill Butcher · Feb 3, 2010

punch13 said: ↑

Joe Calzaghe ranks high among all-time super middleweight boxers during his 15 year boxing profession.

Does Joe Calzaghe deserve to be in top 25 super middleweight in boxing history?!

A good handful of superb super middleweights in boxing history, but I say Joe Calzaghe does make it in.
Click to expand...

25 ?

**** off & stop being stupid.

He`s easily top 5.... 25 is an insult... as you know.

Boxed Ears · Feb 3, 2010

Bill Butcher said: ↑

25 ?

**** off & stop being stupid.

He`s easily top 5.... 25 is an insult... as you know.
Click to expand...

I'm going to do the following threads next:

Is Larry Holmes a top 25 heavyweight?
Is Carlos De Leon a top 25 cruiserweight?
Is your ass distinguishable from a hole in the ground?

EpsilonAxis · Feb 3, 2010

You could make an argument, a good one, that Calzaghe is THE BEST EVER at SMW.

surreal deal · Feb 3, 2010

punch13 said: ↑

Joe Calzaghe ranks high among all-time super middleweight boxers during his 15 year boxing profession.

Does Joe Calzaghe deserve to be in top 25 super middleweight in boxing history?!

A good handful of superb super middleweights in boxing history, but I say Joe Calzaghe does make it in.
Click to expand...

Is this a joke?:huh:nut
Of course he is.You can make a strong case for him even no1, but he's certainly top 5 either way.

Its only SM, a young division.
Being top 10, never mind 25, all time SM is not like being in the ATG's of HW or MW.

EDIT:Just read the rest of the posts, and its clearly not just me who thinks the OP is talking ****.

Brit Sillynanny · Feb 3, 2010

punch13 said: ↑

Joe Calzaghe ranks high among all-time super middleweight boxers during his 15 year boxing profession.

Does Joe Calzaghe deserve to be in top 25 super middleweight in boxing history?!

A good handful of superb super middleweights in boxing history, but I say Joe Calzaghe does make it in.
Click to expand...

A good handful of SUPERB super middleweights in boxing history, but guys like Joe and Sven Ottke are also in the top 25.

lankovski · Mar 6, 2010

Brit Sillynanny said: ↑

The chasm between great talents and Joe is much wider than between Joe and Sven who had very similar careers. They fought similar comp, with similar results and benefited from advantageous conditions in nearly all of their fights. They both were opportunistic and took no chances and remain complete nobodies in the US. Neither KOd anyone (all of Joe's were domestic bums and the few that occurred later in his career were all controversial ref stoppages). Both fighters enjoyed a similar collection of back pocket refs and biased judges. Both were decent fighters who weren't exceptional athletes. If Sven had managed to tack a narrow win or two over a long in the tooth 40+ year old at the very end of his career he could have had an identical record and CV/resume.

This content is protected

Athletically Joe was a bit more nimble of foot with better hand speed but neither had an abundance of discernible power and struggled with most of the mediocre and average opponents they fought.

Joe is incredibly overrated due to ESB's "demographic" slant - and it is a population of internet sport fans (i.e., couch potatoes and scrubs) not knowledgeable real athletes. Take it from someone who has followed boxing a long time - starting with Ali/Frazier I on closed circuit in 1971, and has watched every single second of every single fight over Joe's entire career - the man struggled to get a narrow win over a way past peak weight cutting last minute sub in CE and then intentionally fought nobody (nobodies) for a decade. That was no accident. With Joe's frame he could have easily found his way to LHW if he was in search of legitimate greatness.

This content is protected

Any unbiased observer can see the difference between the elites and Joe. He stands historically near the top of the super middleweight division (WITH SVEN OTTKE) based upon his gaudy record. But, I rate him at SMW (I've got an earlier post which I don't have time to search for delineating the first 7 or eight in the division) between 8 and 10 based upon reality. I don't rate him at all if we widen the scope to the traditional middleweight/light heavyweight categories.

This content is protected

Of course, it must be acknowledged that ESB is loaded with kids that just LOVE Joe Calzaghe. But, it's a "demographic" thing as I've said. If you can't see the truth then that just makes you one more member of the ESB "I don't know **** about athletic talent and ability" club.

Even with boxing being completely out of favor for multiple generations now, the US is still a country that universally applauds great athletic talent and entertainment - no matter its place of origination. You couldn't find ten sport fans who have seen either guy fight who remembers them at all. They are complete nobodies. It isn't because they aren't nice people or good guys. IT IS because they were never special or extraordinary fighters. SIMPLE AS THAT really. Wishing for a different reality doesn't make it so - just as "undefeated" records have to be looked at to see the level of comp faced (i.e., "who was fought" and "when were they fought") - and wins over certain names lose their relevance if those names are collecting social security at the time of the so-called "victories".
Click to expand...

couldnt find TEN sports fans who remember them, really?

Ilesey · Mar 6, 2010

Yeah, he should. He is unjustly given a lot of **** on these boards but looking past that, he deserves to be in there.

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Joe Calzaghe, among top 25 Super Middleweight in boxing history?!

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Joe Calzaghe, among top 25 Super Middleweight in boxing history?!

MaliSlamusrex Boxing Addict Full Member

punch13 Well-Known Member Full Member

des3995 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

RogerB THE OLD GREY WOLF!! Full Member

One Round Hertfordshire's Finest Full Member

DRMULLEN Active Member Full Member

El Cepillo Baddest Man on the Planet Full Member

Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

EpsilonAxis HNIC Full Member

surreal deal Liverpool via Krypton Full Member

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Ilesey ~ Full Member