Joe Calzaghe - Bernard Hopkins The Record Comparison Part 2

Dunky, Pavlik was way over hyped.

Joe beat the guy who beat Pavlik, Pavlik could of fought Abraham but you could say he avoided him for Hopkins too though.

Joe would of Lacy'ed Pavlik, Pavlik has no defense or that much skill at all. He's made for Joe.

 

Dunky,

Calzaghe has more people willing to argue his case over issues these days simply because he has started fighting better opposition (generally) these days and so usually has a better case to argue than he used to have.

That doesn't always make the people doing the arguing "fans" or mean they've somehow changed affiliations, just that circumstances have changed and they've altered their opinion accordingly. It would be foolish to come to opinions about a fighter at a certain point in his career and then just stick with those opinions no matter how the guys career progressed and changed over time. You don't have post up a list of fighters you are for or against when you start posting here and stick with those lists no matter what.

Gaz

 

I was at the ice rink for his fight with Mkrtchian (boring) which was the fight before Salem.

Anyway, if Calzaghe rematched Hopkins I think he would stop him. He came in far too relaxed, I remember Buncey saying that Enzo and Joe were underestimating Hopkins. He wouldn't make that mistake again now he knows what an awkward fighter Hopkins is.

 

If you watch the fight again, you'll see Calzaghe is still sort of in a daze/bewilderment until around round 4.... he does get his act together until round 5/6. The first 3 rounds all go to Hopkins, rounds 4/5 are closer but again Hopkins would wins them. 6 onwards joe gets his act together... and old Hopkins tires (for whatever reason).

I certainly don't buy into the crap that Hopkins win over Pavlik makes his "victory" over Hopkins any better. All that could be said is that Hopkins is not shot.... all the other stuff that he gassed out etc.... still stands..... Did he gas out because Calzaghe was outworking him? I mean, Pavlik didn't throw many punches, whenever he did, he got countered and a lot of the time BHop beat him to the punch and got off first. Whereas Calzaghe did make BHop work.... Alsodid BHop Gas out because he didn't train his under his usual regime?

I think the BHop-Pavlik fight says more about Pavlik than it does about Calzaghe..... We learn that BHop is still a very good fighter and far from finished. We learn that Pavlik is over hyped and is terrible above 160, and we learnt that Calzaghe fought a fighter who was not shot (in Hopkins).

 

Probably because Calazage was facing old past prime ex-champions when Hopkins was beating young prime contenders and other belt holders. Hopkins beat the best rival belt holders from 160 and 154 aswell as mandatories and young contenders. Calazage had 1 mandatory in 8years and avoided young prime contenders until Lacy popped up

What happened to Calazage facing Prime Jones, Glen Johnson, Pavlik, Mundine, Echols, Vanderpool, Reid Rematch. The Otke and Beyer fights he did nothing to make except for when Otke was visably done. Calazage faced lesser opposition pre 2006 when those fights were offered to him so don't pretend Joe fought a who's who because he didnt. He beat mean who beat them but it doesn't mean he wins them all either.

 

It doesn't mean that he wins them all automatically, but it does beg the question of why you don't ratethose wins that Calzaghe does have.

Why are you questioning Calzaghe's lack of wins over 'young prime contenders' and mentioning Johnson, but somehow Calzaghe's win over Sheika, who had just beaten Johnson a couple of months earlier doesn't count.

Echols and Vanderpool are the kind of names that, were they on Calzaghe's resume rather than Hopkins' would be dismissed the same way.

Why question him not facing 'prime Pavlik' or 'prime Mundine' when instead he was fighting and beating the guys who had shut out each of those?

No-one can fight everyone out there.

 

good point... you could easily say to these people.... why did Hopkins "refuse" or avoid fighting guys like McCallum, Benn, Watson, Toney, Eubank and the list can go on.... Now, I'm not saying Hopkins avoided these guys or ducked them..... but the arguments used against JC are along those lines.... pick some fighters from around the same time, then make out as if they've not fought the fighter you want to discredit because he avoided them or feared them.... there's no proof for much of these.... and a lot of fights just weren't made because they didn't make economic sense.... and it came down to Risk and Reward as it does with most fighters

 

The point is Calazage was fighting men who were coming off losses until Lacy and fighting some real dross

Echols - ko'd Brewer in 2 yet Calazage fights
Mundine - faster than Calazage
Vanderpool - better jab and move merchant than Joe had ever faced

These were good fights and tough stylistic matches that were avoided

 

1. OK recently Pavlik has been avoided by Calazage like the plague and Joe even made up a bull**** lie about offering Kelly a fight before Lacy when Pavlik was a no one in need of a big fight. Just because BHOPs shuts Pavlik out doesn't mean Pavliks straight right and jab don't put Calazage in trouble

2. You do realise Johnson got robbed agaisnt Sheika the fight before Calazage fought him don't you? See the patern - bad performance, they lose, or they seem old, Joe signs to fight them.

3. Echols beat Brewer in 2, yet Calazage fights Brewer and takes him 12.

4. Kessler and Hopkins are great names to fight, but Calazage is a cherry picker of the highest order

 

Putting aside, the debates of who Calzaghe did fight v who he didn't, I don't think we've yet seen any actual evidence that these fights were on offer and turned down. Can you give specific details, time periods, etc?

 

If you followed the boxing news at the time you'd know Mundine and Vanderpool were calling out Calazage and would have come to Wales for reasonable money. Echols could have been brought in easily enough too.

Glen Johnson had 2 fights set with Calazage that Joe pulled out on, with spurious excuses

I actually defend Calazage on the General board against ignorant Americans, because his record is very good, but calculated pre2006, but its just not as good as Hopkins. And pretending he didn't avoid a heap of fights is also ignorant