Joe Calzaghe:Measured against all time

general zod · Dec 2, 2010

For the Calzaghe fans- very long read
From another forum

Measured Against All Time - Joe Calzaghe

By Cliff Rold

How good is Joe Calzaghe, measured against all-time?

Competition Faced

The who and what of Calzaghe’s accomplishments summarized, it turns to the quality of the competition he’s faced. Coming off wins against Kessler, Hopkins and Jones, it’s hard to believe it wasn’t long ago his competition was widely, and rightly, derided. While foes like Mger Mkrtchian and Tocker Pudwill had good records on paper, they didn’t look very good on canvas. Patience became virtue for followers of Calzaghe. By the time he was done at Super Middleweight, the wheat and the chaff could stand together in equal measure.

Eubank, Reid, Brewer, Mitchell, Lacy and Kessler were all former or current titlists and only Reid ever really came close to defeating Calzaghe, losing a split decision in a tough fight. There were other quality wins as well. Sheika was flawed but dangerous; Richie Woodhall was a former Olympic medalist; and Sakio Bika continues to be a handful for any Super Middleweight.

The Jones win adds a spectacular name to his resume, and the nature of the win will excite many, but considering where Roy was in his career it doesn’t merit recognition above Kessler or even Eubank. The Hopkins win looked to some in April like a case of Hopkins age as much as Calzaghe’s quality but, following the 43-year old Hopkins drubbing 26-year old Middleweight champion Kelly Pavlik in October, raises in estimation to the level of other of Calzaghe’s biggest wins. Making it more impressive, Calzaghe stands out as the only man ever to dominate Hopkins over the second half of a fight. Not even a young Roy Jones could do that, instead splitting the final eight rounds of their 1993 bout after sweeping the first four rounds on all judge’s cards.

Stacked against the measure of history, Calzaghe’s competition falls short of legendary names like Sam Langford, Harry Greb, and Ray Robinson. To his fortune, so does the competition of everyone else in his time. Modern Boxing boils most careers down to a handful of fights in separating the elite from the very good whereas in other times it boiled down to series of fights against fellow elites and stronger supporting casts. Calzaghe won his handful and most of them comfortably. Fighters like Kessler and Lacy continue with their careers and their successes could add to his legacy. Greatness in this era is a sort of balanced equation pitting who a man faced versus who they didn’t in determining how great a career was really had. The campaign from Lacy to today make the equation look strong in Calzaghe’s favor but…

Competition Not Faced

There were notable fighters who Calzaghe didn’t face over his career and younger versions of Hopkins and Jones top the list. The why of those fights not happening earlier is and always will be open for debate but in terms of history, it’s irrelevant. They didn’t happen then and beating a 2002 version of Jones or Hopkins would mean more to his resume than 2008 versions, particularly in the case of Jones. To Calzaghe’s credit, he’s shown that a win against a prime version of him is as absent from their records as the opposite is true for his own and he at least can say he defeated both when opportunity knocked.
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general zod · Dec 2, 2010

continued:

There are more beneath those legends. Ottke retired with 21-defenses of his own, an undefeated 34-0 record and was better than often remembered. With almost no power, he befuddled tough outs like Charles Brewer, Glen Johnson, and Mads Larsen. History won’t and shouldn’t regard Ottke as Calzaghe’s equal, but for the two to have almost twin accomplishments in terms of title defenses and never fight makes him a significant miss for Calzaghe.

As noted above, Calzaghe’s win over Eubank didn’t make him best in class in many minds, American Frankie Liles and his WBA belt instead assuming the top rung. Liles, also then the lineal champion traced back to Chong Pal-Park, captured the title in 1994 but suffered for lack of fights too often. Wins over Michael Nunn and, in one of the division’s best fights ever versus Tim Littles, showed the former amateur rival of Jones to be a serious world class fighter, dangerous both in terms of speed and power.

There was also Frenchman Bruno Girard, a largely forgotten but capable WBA titlist after Liles who won belts not only at 168 but also 175.

Stacking who he didn’t fight against who he did, the ratio ultimately favors Calzaghe because of his longevity and ability to dominate younger men like Lacy and Kessler. The old adage is that a fighter can only fight the men available and Calzaghe fought more of them than he did not. However, any or all of the names missed, particularly younger versions of the legends he eventually did face, would have added extra shine to his record and bolstered him in debates about his historical standing.

Reaction to Adversity

Callzaghe’s also shown tremendous inner stuff in the ring. He’s been on the floor four times; he’s won all four of those fights. But more than getting off the floor to win, he’s the rare fighter who gets up and fires right away. Against Mitchell, an Ernie Shavers sort of fighter with right hand bombs which could almost override vast technical flaws, he went down like a bullet in the second round and yet won the fight within the same frame. He rose from the deck in round four against Kabary Salem two fights later and won almost every other round, dropping Salem in the final round. The results against Hopkins and Jones, both of whom dropped him in round one, are fresh in the collective memory. It’s an example of excellent recuperative abilities and a will to win which has yet to be broken. If Calzaghe does decide to retire, it never will.

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general zod · Dec 2, 2010

Dawson remains the most interesting. Calzaghe left Super Middleweight having cut off the next generation of the class at the knees. A win over Dawson would allow him to say the same at Light Heavyweight, something the aging very seldom can say in one, much less two, weight classes. It would also make him a stronger case for fighter of this decade where debate exists now between Calzaghe, Hopkins, Manny Pacquiao, and Floyd Mayweather.

Measured Against History

We return now to the original question: How good is Joe Calzaghe, measured against all-time?

Pretty damn good is the answer.

verdict on Joe Calzaghe: All-Time Great

Author’s Note: This is the first in an occasional series which will examine the most accomplished of modern fighters in seeking to establish how their careers stack up with history’s finest. Next up: Oscar De La Hoya in the week before his battle with Manny Pacquiao.

Cliff Rold is a member of the Ring Magazine Ratings Advisory Panel and the Boxing Writers Association of America. He can be reached at
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do people here agree with this?

VanillaKilla · Dec 2, 2010

This has been done to death. Calzaghe's resume SUCKS. But he was a pretty good fighter.

dvb · Dec 2, 2010

i just think hes over rated,he fought okay to good opposition.

but of the big names he fought and beat,they were old and past thier prime,eubank,hopkins(though thts atleast a draw)And Roy jones way past his best.

there were more good tough fighters that he didnt fight.

and the undefeated thing doesnt impress me considering that fact. just becomes some one is unbeaten doesnt mean their an ATG,it often means the opposite,it means they have been gifted decisions and carefully selected opponents and when to face certain opponents.

Scar · Dec 2, 2010

I'm not going to waste time reading that, I checked out this guy's career to make my own decision. Does this article rate him top 10 or something insanely funny like that?, rating him top 100 is arguable with a resume as poor as that.

general zod · Dec 2, 2010

VanillaKilla said: ↑

This has been done to death. Calzaghe's resume SUCKS. But he was a pretty good fighter.
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I agree

dvb said: ↑

i just think hes over rated,he fought okay to good opposition.

but of the big names he fought and beat,they were old and past thier prime,eubank,hopkins(though thts atleast a draw)And Roy jones way past his best.

there were more good tough fighters that he didnt fight.
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Who do you have in mind?

dvb said: ↑

and the undefeated thing doesnt impress me considering that fact. just becomes some one is unbeaten doesnt mean their an ATG,it often means the opposite,it means they have been gifted decisions and carefully selected opponents and when to face certain opponents.
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I can agree with that

general zod · Dec 2, 2010

Scar said: ↑

I'm not going to waste time reading that, I checked out this guy's career to make my own decision. Does this article rate him top 10 or something insanely funny like that?, rating him top 100 is arguable with a resume as poor as that.
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He ranks him somewhere in the top 100. Its is a damned long article no doubt but you can choose the relevent parts based on the subject headings like Competition faced/not faced etc

Clinton · Dec 2, 2010

Like him or hate him(I had been a fan but stopped being one when he proved to be a lying tosser,although I definitely don't hate him),he was a great fighter.He was a southpaw that had excellent handspeed,terrific(and very underrated even to this day)footwork,intelligent ring adaptability,a good chin,and,most importantly,un-****ing-real stamina.Now his detractors will say how mediocre his resume is,and his supporters will claim his resume is good enough,but NOBODY can deny his skills and record.

Uncle Rico · Dec 2, 2010

The fact that Carl Froch's (a man who hasn't even got in to full gear yet) last 5 opponents alone **** over the whole Joe's resume, says a lot.

realsoulja · Dec 2, 2010

He did what he could in that division.

He never used to call out big names in post fight interviews, and never complained that people are ducking him.

He could off forced some fight if he really wanted them. Ottke, Johnson, Hopkins, Jones Jr....

All in all, his resume lacks prime wins over A level fighters for him to be considered an ATG.

Also he didnt want to step in the ring with Carl Froch. Froch Called him out, pre Lacy. But he fought Manfredo and Evans Ashira instead.

general zod · Dec 2, 2010

Uncle Rico said: ↑

The fact that Carl Froch's (a man who hasn't even got in to full gear yet) last 5 opponents alone **** over the whole Joe's resume, says a lot.
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Good point
How comes Froch got his title shot so late? When did he turn pro?

tito44 · Dec 2, 2010

Against a prime Roy he would have almost certainly lost, and most likely got knocked out. If he fought Hopkins at 168 when he was younger the result would have been even easier for him.

tliang1000 · Dec 2, 2010

He ducked Glen Johnson 3 times.

Axe · Dec 2, 2010

Calzaghe has a **** poor resume.

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