Joe Calzaghe retired 46-0 (32) in 2008. Get over it. Fans & haters; quit trolling!

bailey,

Seriously, how many more times are we going to do this?

It's been almost three years.

Roy was open to fighting Dariusz in America.

But he didn't feel as though he should have gone to Germany.

Dariusz claimed that he was open to fighting Roy in America, but when it came down to it, nothing happened.

His resume speaks volumes.

The difference between Dariusz and Joe, was that Roy and Dariusz were number 1 and 2 in the same division.

There was a huge demand for the fight.

But there wasn't a demand to see Roy fight Joe back then.

This is like repeatedly smashing your head against a wall.

All you ever say is 'if' the fight had been available, Joe would have taken it.

Now what don't you understand, about the fact that it was never going to be available?

Not while Joe was fighting in a different division.

It wasn't realistic in any way.

It was no good fighting in Europe at SMW, if you were genuinely chasing a LHW who fought in the U.S.

It was also no good eventually facing Roy in 2008.

It's common knowledge that Joe didn't gain respect and recognition until he'd beaten Lacy in 2006.

Just ask ANY U.S. member on here, how popular Joe was in the early 00's.

Correct.

But everyone knew who DM was, because again, they were rated at number 1 and 2 in the division.

There was a huge demand for the fight.

Again, there wasn't with Joe.

Dariusz had fought Hill and Griffin who were well known in the U.S.

Joe wasn't known.

Here we go again.

Apart from Grant, nearly all of Roy's LHW fights were mandatories.

They didn't need to bring in big money.

Because he kept most of the money that HBO were paying per fight.

We know that Joe wouldn't have fought for the amount of money that guys like Grant were fighting for.

He didn't fully commit to moving to HW, until after the Woods fight in 2002.

 

bailey,

He just repeated what Joe had told him and the media.

Frank W.

Grant fought in Roy's country, and moved up to his weight class, in a stay busy fight, where it was probably a 90/10 split in Roy's favour.

Him being a sub isn't relevant.

There was no point in mentioning Roy's name, unless it was going to be backed up with something.

He fought Brewer and Jiminez before Roy moved up to HW.

How were they going to get him a fight?

Why do you think that after briefly considering it, he went with two other options?

In the end, he didn't want the fight.

So why didn't he MOVE up then?

Don't come back with the usual Kessler and Lacy talk, because they weren't on the scene back then.

Joe is 6ft, with a natural walking around weight between 192-196 pounds.

There was nothing left for him at SMW, when Ottke wouldn't unify.

He could have moved up and been made a mandatory to fight Gonzalez, who'd beaten Dariusz.

He spoke of going up.

He said that his speed would be a huge advantage.

He said the previous year, that although he'd fought good fighters, he'd never beaten any great ones.

Everyone has to deal with circumstances.

Roy couldn't unify at SMW, so he took on a new challenge.

Whereas when Joe couldn't unify, he remained at the weight, told people he was better than Lennox Lewis, and that he'd fight Roy, but only for 'The Crown Jewells' due to the element of risk involved.

 

Athletics is HUGE in the US. Boxing has long, long been dead. Athletics follows the interests of YOUTH and they abandoned all interest in boxing generations ago. As such, very few US boxers have ANY name recognition. The exceptions were just as few as today. Sugar Ray Leonard, Tyson, Holyfield, RJJ, and Dela Hoya - that's pretty much it. The very idea that Joe Calzaghe could be "known" over here is absurd. Even when Bernard was fighting Trinidad, BHOP was relatively unknown outside of a handful of hardcore US boxing fans. And for misinformed Europeans, NO ONE in the US has any idea who Jeff Lacy and Jermain Taylor are. They were (and remain) complete and utter unknowns.

It is doubtful than RJJ had any real idea who Joe Calzaghe was either in these years. He wasn't keeping track of fringe European fighters just like he wasn't making sure he was around to catch the latest "Sven Ottke" fight on cable. Great athletes don't have a lot of interest in watching inferior ones perform. That is simply the reality.

Joe's popularity in Europe (whatever a European deems that to be) has nothing to do with the US. In fact, if you asked a US sport fan who was the best UK boxer out of the following - Sebastian Coe, Steve Cram, Joe Calzaghe, Stephen Hawking, or Rowan Atkinson, Calzaghe would get fifth. And if you just listed their last names and indicated one name doesn't belong with the rest, the most common guess would be that the "trick" was "Calzaghe" as that was obviously the name of some UK pizza house rather than any famous individual with accomplishments in some pursuit or area of life.

 

Ha!

I enjoyed reading that.

:good

 

:good

Your posts are consistently correct. And, your patience with fools is always impressive.

It is amazing to read the same few guys argue on behalf of Joe when they have no idea about the state of US boxing - its relation to athletics (i.e., the other major US sports) over the past nearly fifty years.

Whatever Joe may or may not have been outside the US has no bearing on his anonymity over here.

You couldn't find ten general US sport fans that would have had any idea who Tarver and Johnson (living in the US) is either when they KO'd Roy. Chad Dawson = zero name recognition. You can't find ten American sport fans that know almost ANY US boxer (not named FMJ) today. There was never a clamor about guys like Michalczewski, Ottke, & Calzaghe because NO ONE has or EVER HAD ANY IDEA under the sun who they are/were. No one in the US ever knew RJJ could or should have fought Michalczewski either - he was a nobody - completely unknown and unheard of.

There are rodeo stars over here with comparable levels of fame to these European boxing "stars".

 

Thanks.

That's very informative.

How about to general boxing fans though, as apposed to just general sports fans?

I've heard numerous times that guys like Joe, Ottke and Kessler etc, weren't popular in the U.S. during their early careers.

Are you an American?

What State do you live in?


:good

 

:rofl Which is why Sven Ottke and Joe Calzaghe could care less about Jones.

 

Athletics isn't a big money maker in the United States unless you are one of the lucky ones being sponsored by a company or brand. Boxing is more attractive for youth, since there is a greater chance of making money there. People in the states know more about boxing than athletics, people could tell you who Floyd Mayweather is, but draw a blank about who Tyson Gay is.

 

So you are not American obviously. Only a European thinks when an American says "athletics" he means track & field. To an American, athletics references football (not soccer), basketball, and baseball.

 

Yes. Las Vegas, Nevada.

"Joe, Ottke, Kessler"

No one over here ever knew who these guys were. Even boxing fans (as compared to a general sports fan).

The single largest group following boxing in the US is Hispanic or Latino Americans.

Boxing's decline has occurred steadily over many, many generations. It began with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in which minorities were able to attend colleges without discrimination and with the breaking of the color lines in the major three sports (effectively in the late 40s but really not until the mid-50s). The demographic shift was gradual and steady from still low levels in 1970 to current levels. There was also expansion in these sports which steadily added more professional teams which meant more players. These sports have experienced expansions in players (rosters), number of teams, and number of games. The real explosion though has been at the collegiate level. The number of televised games here dwarfs the pros. The number of athletes performing as college players in the three sports is huge. The economic impact incredible. It is these immense participation numbers at the collegiate level that ensures the pros remains at the highest level of athletic quality. Great competition in college leads to great quality in the pros.

The demographic shift has had a definite impact upon boxing. The often heard European "argument" that "these sports have always existed" is fallacious when participation rates are correctly considered.

For example, demographically, the NBA went from 0 to 5% many generations ago to 80% (African-American) twenty years ago. Professional football went from the same levels many generations ago to 60%. Both sports have experienced expansions in players (rosters), number of teams, and number of games. All the while, the African-American population remained static at 13% of the US population.

The huge growth in these sports was due to the opportunity to gain a college education from participating in these sports (which was not available to boxers). Decade by decade these sports have boomed into behemoths - financially/economically (both as professional sports and as HUGE money machines for universities - which funds a myriad of non-athletic programs), in terms of participation rates, and culturally or in terms of popularity. Across the board, all of America's youth has come to love and desire success in these sports. Boxing has fallen off steadily in lock step. Parents aren't going to "subsidize" their son to become a boxer when there is no educational opportunity afforded (i.e, scholarship availability) like in the other sports. A declining professional environment in which only a couple major names (e.g., FMJ) makes a great income adds to the risk profile which deters athletes from the sport (and any backers of those athletes).

The youth in America can rattle off the names of (obscure to you or I) college basketball and football players. It has been like this for many decades.

None of them know who Thompson, Jennings, Wilder, Ward, Dirrell, Quillen, Kirkland, Trout, Bradley, Porter, Thurman, Alexander, Malignaggi, Peterson, Broner, etc,. etc. are.

Boxing's decline is directly related to a lack of interest from America's youth. [It doesn't matter your color or ethnicity. You can be an Asian-American that may well never grow big or large enough to make it in the NFL or NBA, you are still playing basketball and football or baseball as a kid. You are not boxing. This cultural shift has been occurring for nearly fifty years. Boxing has declined in a relative sense (even with the occasional great boxing talent that has emerged from the US) and in the aggregate. The participation rates tell the story.]

A non-American should simply ask themselves one question. Why is the athletic quality consistently at the highest level across a larger number of players (due to prior expansion) both professionally and at the university level in the three major sports - generation after generation - sports which are booming economically? Why are the US boxers generally so poor in the aggregate with so few examples of great talent (out of a population of 310 million)?

 

Great post!

A fascinating read.

Welcome to the forum.

If you don't me asking, how old are you?

I'll look forward to reading more of your posts in the future.


:good

 

:good

 

52.

Cheers to you, Loudon. Always enjoy your calm and skillful repartees in the face of those heavily loaded contentions certain individuals write built upon (obvious) false premises.

You caught my post a little bit short .. just finished.

 

It was as viable as Roy Jones Jr beating up unknown mandatories. Joe Calzaghe didn't really caught the eye of boxing fans until he slapped the **** out of Jeff Lacy. But a brittish boxer stepping up against a big name like Jones Jr would have gained the interest of brittish customers as well as those yanks who watched Jones Jr no mather who he fought.

Jones Jr made a living out of shifting weightclasses when it suited him. It was a part of how he built up his career.

:bart

Calzaghe could probably have done a bit more to make himself relevant as an opponent. He claimed in 2008 he had chased Jones Jr for years and years, just like he later claimed he had offered Carl Froch and Kelly Pavlik a fight but without success - fighters he showed no interest in once they started to call him out. I'm not suggesting Calzaghe is a bull****ter, rather I suspect he sometimes could have done more to battle a harsh and unfair fate when it came to finding worthy opponents who dared to face him. But since we who participate in this debate never have faced such hardship ourselves, we should not be too condemning.

But this thread isn't about what Calzaghe did or didn't do. It's about Jones not wanting to fight Calzaghe when beeing in his prime. He viewed the fight to be a bit risky and he felt there wasn't enough for him to gain.

So Jones Jr didn't want to fight Calzaghe - FACT, as we say here on ESB.

 

RJJ chose his fights carefully. The part-time firefighter or was it cop? The Aussie sloth, Lou Del Valle -who put him down and if he had ANY skill would have KO'd him. RJJ was great, but lets keep it in perspective, he fought guys nobody heard of, so the statements that the Euro champs at the time were "unheard of" is both ludicrous and highly ignorant, or just plain trolling.