Joe Calzaghe retired 46-0 (32) in 2008. Get over it. Fans & haters; quit trolling!

bailey,

How is any of that relevant?

The point is, Joe said he wanted to move up.

He said there was nothing else to achieve at SMW.

Gonzalez would have given him the opportunity to move up to LHW.

It didn't matter how good Gonzalez was, and who he'd beaten.

The opportunity was there, and Joe ignored it.

He then made the same comments before facing Mkrtchyan, and people thought that was going to be his last fight at SMW.

Yet he then went on to fight Kabary Salem.

Fast forward to 2008, and he's telling fans like you that he chased Roy for six years, and he wanted bigger fights sooner, but couldn't get them.

Well of course he couldn't.

Not whilst defending against substandard WBO mando's.

No.

Nobody with any knowledge of boxing, would have given Carl even a chance against Roy at his peak.

A complete mismatch.

It's too silly to even comprehend.

 

Stylewise I think Carl Froch would cause Roy Jones Jr more trouble than Joe Calzaghe. Roys reflexes, speed and footwork means trying to outbox him is futile. Joe is quick on hand and feet himself, but lacks the power to make Roy crumble. Carl packs a better punsch and can take more punishment.

Now, I'm not saying I would bet my house on Carl to win but we saw him making it competitive against a first grade boxer with speed, reflexes, defence and footwork in Andre Ward. I think he would pose some danger for Roy, who fought some world level opponents but not many enough to be sure how he would fare against different styles.

 

I respect your opinion, but I don't agree at all.

A complete mismatch IMHO.

Carl would have been so easy to tag.

Roy would either have pot shotted him to an easy points win, or he'd have TKO'd him, if Carl had've forced the issue and poured forward.

At least Joe was a southpaw, with fast hands and high work rate.

If you look at their styles, it would have been a nightmare for Carl.

Andre Ward is a great boxer, but he doesn't possess Roy's speed or power, and he fought with a fractured hand.

Roy knocked out two 180 pound plus fighters with single shots.

I think people forget just how awesome Roy was back in the day.

He had far more skill, far more speed, far more variation, far more power, much better footwork and reflexes, with better timing and more accuracy.

It would have been a drag race between a decent car and a Lamborghini.

 

I can agree with the questionmark beeing Roys power. In boxing, power means a lot. I favour Roy over Joe, because I think Joe can only be defeated if you force him to back down, and prime Roy carries a lot of pop.

I don't know how Carl would deal with Roys power. He has fought a lot of strong and tough guys, without beeing much effected. But never any real KO'king.

What good pressure fighters did Roy fight in your opinion?

 

Joe was a great fighter, but he was always relatively easy to hit, especially with right hands.

But Carl is more hittable than Joe was.

I like Carl, but a guy with little defence, walking forward towards Roy, would have been a recipe for disaster.

Styles make fights.

And Carl's style was just made to order.

Roy would have had a birthday in there.

At 25/26, Roy was on a different planet to guys like Carl.

Roy hasn't been pressured that much.

Vinny Paz tried it, Ruiz tried it, and I think it was Brannon who ran across the ring to him.

Glen Johnson pressured him and of course ended up knocking him out after the loss to Tarver.

I'd have loved to have seen Benn fight him.

He would have been dangerous early.

 

He should have fought Pavlik instead who was undefeated at the time and he would have received some credit for that win. Before the Jones fight, Calzaghe said himself that he had everthing to lose and nothing to gain for that fight. And then he kicked Pavlik when down after he lost to Hopkins when he (and his dad) was the one making excuses for not fighting:deal. That's what made me hate this guy.

 

Same here.

I honestly used to like Joe earlier on in his career, before he started contradicting himself and playing the victim of circumstances card.

He would have beaten Pavlik easier than Hopkins IMHO, and he'd have got lots of credit for it.


Read this link:

http://www1.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/4161946/calzaghe-pavlik-is-gutless


Joe said he approached him straight after the Lacy win in 2006.

At that point, Pavlik had done NOTHING.

And people wonder why he gets criticised.

Why the hell was he offering to fight an unknown NABF, MW champion, after he'd beaten Lacy?


Why did he fight Roy in 2008, after saying it would be pointless in 2007, because Roy was shot?


The guy's a joker!

 

They would have fought in 2004 if Johnson had waited instead of fighting Jones. Johnson told Dan Goosen to forget about Joe. Yet he came running back to Calzaghe when Joe became a superstar after whooping Lacy.

BBC Tuesday, 8 June, 2004

But Johnson is adamant Calzaghe has lost his chance, saying: "The fight is off. I'm not interested in fighting Joe Calzaghe any more.Johnson refused to wait for the fight to be rescheduled on 04,fact.

Calzaghe agreed to fight Johnson in September 06 on the condition that Johnson beat Woods in their 3rd fight. However Johnson lost and missed his chance. Calzaghe was ringside for this fight - some scared ducker hey. Why do people leave out this information when discussing this issue?

and I have a hard time believing Calzaghe would duck an old journeyman like Johnson to fight a younger, much more dangerous Mikkel Kessler!!! and yes Calzaghe WAS injury prone. he was notorious for hand problems.....Many of his fights including Lacy had to be rescheduled. He still ended up fighting them. He wanted to reschedule the Johnson fight but like i saidJ ohnson said he was "done" with Calzaghe.

everybody was beating johnson before he popped up on the hbo screen and knockout over HBO fighter jones jr

also not once throughout calzaghes reign was johnson ranked in the ringmag top 10!!

Lets remember also years before Johnson lost the boxoff to face Calzaghe, when losing to sheika and Calzaghe pulled out several times against Sheika with injuries. I think 3 times, but we know what happened when they did get in the ring

 

bailey,

Gonzalez was ONE option to fight in Roy's weight class.

The Ottke fight couldn't be made.

He said he'd chased Roy for years.

When Gonzalez had defeated DM, Joe could have expressed a desire to fight him at some point.

Gonzalez then lost to Erdei.

Joe could have tried to fight Erdei to again move up to the division where he said he wanted to be.

What happened?

A fight with Johnson fell through at SMW, not LHW, and then Joe went on to fight Mkrtchyan and Salem.

I suppose they were the big fights at LHW that he'd spoke of?

The POINT is this:

He changed his mind, which was his prerogative, but then still claimed to have chased Roy for years.

You can't have it both ways!

If you think he was right to not drop his belt and to try his hand at LHW, that's fine by me.

But what you can't do, is tell me the reasons why he changed his mind, but then still believe that he did in fact chase Roy for years.

So which is it?

You can't chase a guy, whilst fighting the Salem's of the world.

Three years later.

Gonzalez or Erdei could have given him the opportunity to move up.

But he wasn't interested.

Because when push came to shove, he didn't want to mix it at LHW like he'd claimed.

He could have moved up in 2005.

But he ended up fighting Veit and Ashira.

Those fights were fights that he was happy to take.

Yet he'll claim to gullible fans like you, that he wanted the big fights, but couldn't them.

Then you'll come back and say 'that's correct because Hopkins and Roy turned him down.'

Without realising that the reason he was turned down in the first place, was because he was fighting those types of guys.

The opportunity to move up to LHW was always there.

Gonzalez was one example.

He could have been made a mandatory with the WBO, if he'd have moved up.

So when Gonzalez lost to Erdei, Erdei could have been an option. It would have gotten him a foot in the door, in the division where he supposedly wanted to be.

If he chased Roy for six years, why was he trying to fight Johnson at SMW?

If he wanted recognition and bigger fights in America, why was he killing himself to make weight to fight the Ashira's of the world?

You're going to have accept the fact that Joe was telling porkies.

He was happy to fight those WBO mando's, which is why he boasted to Froch about his number of defences.

When will it sink in, that the reason why he didn't get big fight opportunities earlier, was BECAUSE of all of those WBO mando's?

Do you understand??

You can't boast about your number of WBO defences on one hand, and then also claim that you were avoided and you wanted those big fights on another.

Frank W claims that he was happy to fight someone called Freeman Barr.

It's a joke!

No it isn't correct.

Roy had one fight at HW.

He wasn't chasing Roy while fighting the likes of Ashira and Veit.

We're not debating what happened in the end.

We're debating why he didn't get bigger fights earlier.

Of course every guy had gimmes.

But Joe's resume is stacked with them, despite his claims of being avoided.

No.

Not in anyway whatsoever.

Roy would have made him look like a complete amateur.

Then you probably would have been on here the following day, telling us all how Froch was never that good to begin with etc.

 

bailey,

Stop giving Joe a pass.

Joe said that he chased Roy.

Yes or no?


He said that he wanted to move up to LHW for bigger fights.

Yes or no?


The WBO said if Joe wanted to move up to LHW, he would have been made a mandatory.

Yes or no?


Fighting at LHW instead of at SMW, would have been a step closer to fighting Roy.

Yes or no?


They are really simple questions.


So let's have your answers.

Hello!

He could have moved up to LHW, where he would soon have gotten a title shot.

Dariusz M, Gonzalez and Erdei could all have been options.

Explain how he chased him for six years?

List the years and tell me what he did.

So Joe couldn't have moved up, and expressed an interest to fight the winner? The WBO said they'd have made him an automatic mandatory challenger. That meant a title shot.

A title shot in a division where Roy was, and the division where Joe supposedly wanted to be.

At least he'd have been one step closer to bigger fights and recognition.

Fighting the likes of Erdei for the LHW title, was better than fighting the likes of Salem etc at SMW.

If he'd have gotten that belt, it would have gotten him a foot in the door. Again, Joe wasn't psychic. He couldn't have known back then, that big fights with Lacy and Kessler would materialise two and three years later.

So why did he say he wanted bigger fights and recognition, and he could take his speed up to LHW, and then ignore the opportunity that was on offer?

The logical answer, has to be that he wasn't telling the truth, and he was content to face more WBO mando's at SMW. Which is backed up by his boastful claims to Carl Froch earlier this year.

It didn't matter about recognition in his first fight at the weight.

The point is, it would have been a title shot, which would have led to other bigger opportunities.

If he'd have gotten that belt, he could have been looking to have fought Tarver/Roy/Johnson for the other belts.

I said that the fight fell through with Johnson, and Joe went and fought Mkrtchyan in 2004.

I never spoke of the other years.

If Joe had been at LHW by the time Johnson had beaten Roy, potential fights with Johnson or Tarver, would have been big. It would certainly have been a lot bigger than a fight with a guy like Kabary Salem.

If he changed his mind about fighting in Roy's division, he couldn't have been chasing him.

He couldn't have chased Roy while he was fighting at SMW.

You can't seriously chase a guy if you're in a different division.

Oh the irony.

Ok, if you believe he chased Roy for six years, then show me proof.

Don't send me the same links from 2001 and 2002, show me actual evidence of how he chased down the fight.

But we both know you won't be able to.

Because apart from brief talks, nothing else happened.

Joe fought in a different country and in a different weight class, until Roy was 39 years old.

That's right, but I'm looking at the realistic opportunities that he had, to have fought Roy and to have moved up to LHW sooner, for bigger fights.

If the WBO had've made him a mandatory challenger to whoever had held the belt at the time, then he could have given his SMW title up.

Because I'd have fancied Joe to have beaten any of DM, Gonzalez and Erdei.

Wouldn't you have?

It was harder for Joe to get big fights at LHW, while he held his SMW belt.

But it's obvious that owning a LHW belt, would have made it much easier.

Counter what?

Roy was back from HW in Sept 03.

If Joe had've held the WBO, LHW title in 2004, he could have been in the mix with Roy, Tarver and Johnson.

If any of those fights could have been made, my money would have been on Joe.

Now I appreciate that fights are hard to make for a number of reasons.

So of course nothing was guaranteed.

But it was more than possible that had Joe held the WBO, LHW belt in 2004, he could have had the opportunity to have unified the division between 2004-2006.

They weren't enough to get the likes of Roy in the ring.

What do you mean, how do I know he wasn't interested?

Ha!

Because he went and fought Mkrtchyan and Salem instead.

No it doesn't, because that was four years later.

It's not ridiculous at all.

The Veit fight was a joke.

It was embarrassing.

Having to fight him again because he was a mando.

Yet had he moved up to LHW earlier, he could potentially have been a multiple champion by the time he'd fought Veit again.

The opportunity was there, but he didn't take it.

We're not talking about Roy.

But Roy went to HW and back and made history.

That's right and we know why.

You do realise that Hopkins went on to fight Joe seven years later, don't you?

No.

Dariusz M, Gonzalez and Erdei were all options that could potentially have brought bigger fights at LHW, against the likes of Roy, Tarver, Johnson, and Hopkins earlier.

In 2003/2004, Lacy and Kessler had done nothing, and winning the WBO, LHW belt back then, could possibly have lead to bigger fights than Lacy and Kessler.

Again, only until Sept, 03, when he announced he was moving back to LHW.

They were three failed attempts to make the fight.

But had it taken place it would have been at SMW.

I haven't slipped up. It was an example. He was supposed to have chased Roy for six years. But if that had've been the truth, he'd have moved up to LHW earlier.

But he didn't end up fighting them. Again, Joe could have been in the LHW mix by the time Roy had moved back down.

If he couldn't get those fights, yet had a title shot at LHW, why didn't he take it?

I'm not interested in stats. He fought lots of poor opposition, that cost him big money fights earlier on in his career.

They didn't have to have fought.

A prediction is easy to make.

I've never drove a Mini Cooper, and I've never drove a Lamborghini.

But I know which one would win in a drag race.

Roy at 25/26, fighting against ANY version of Carl, would have been a complete mismatch.

There'd have been more chance of Carl beating Roy, than what you have of pawning me.


:good

 

I remember the Calzaghes were defending the move that Pavlik wasn't ready for the big stage. That evokes for me the Manfredo fight in Wales. What a treat that was! :tired

 

The Manfrdeo fight was a joke.

It was an insult for a guy of Joe's class to have been fighting him.

But it needed to happen, to gain more U.S. exposure.

 

Kelly pavlik scared Calzaghe into retirement