Joe Calzaghe the greatest super middleweight ever...

Well clearly is a bit of an exaturation seeing as its a very hotly debated subject.

 

Wins are relevant even if they dont occur against a prime opponent. Hopkins and Eubank where still top dogs when Calzaghe slapped them into rightful submission.

 

Pretty much.

 

What exactly was Eubank "top dog" of at the time he fought Calzaghe? Mentally he was never the same after the second Watson fight, and physically he appeared to slow from the Rocky fight onwards. His struggles with Close, Amaral and Schommer (all questionable decisions) are evidence that he was past his peak by the time Collins got to him, and Calzaghe fought him after his later semi-retirement excursions in the Middle East.

To be fair to Calzaghe, he hadn't yet hit his prime himself, and it is definitely an impressive win. He showed an excellent chin and the speed and energy that made him such a difficult opponent. However, let's not kid ourselves that Eubank was the same fighter who went toe to toe with Benn and Watson.

 

I agree Eubank was past peak. But at that point he had only lost twice, and been competivie in both bouts. It seems hard to argue that he was not one of the main forces in the division.

Considering his selfdeclared retirement: I dont belive boxers abilty suffer from layoffs. If anything, it can be a good idea to give the body some time to heal up.

 

After being repeatedly thrashed in every debate, Sugar Joe's deniers are now clinging on to their last bit of hope that Calzaghe somehow wasn't even a legitimate champion during those earlier glory years :roflatsch.

Look at the history of the 168lb titles. There's no denying the reality, and it's time the esb minions admitted total defeat and just stfu for good :yep:deal.

Gem of a post :roflatsch

 

Nobody said anything of the sort. He was the wbo champ, which was not as widely recognized for ALL fighters back then. He unified vs Lacy and was THE man at 168. Nobody has said otherwise. Instead of cheerleading for the side you obviously desperately want to be on, dispute what I said.

 

So many people rate Wards win over Kessler as something special yet dont rate Calzaghes victory over Eubank. Why?

It was Wards 21st fight, Ward was 25
It was Calzaghes 23rd fight, Calzaghe was 25

Ward won at home
Calzaghe won away

When Ward beat Kessler, Kessler was 42-1-0
When Calzaghe beat Eubank, Eubank was 45-2-2

Kessler was 31
Eubank was 31

Kessler was 8-1 in world title fights
Eubank was 17-2-2 in world title fights

It was just under 3 years since Kessler beat a world rated opponent
It was just under 3 years since Eubank beat a world rated opponent

Kessler had only fought 3 completed rounds in 1 fight in a year before fighting Ward
Eubank had only fought 7 completed rounds in 2 fights in a year before fighting Calzaghe

Kesslers only loss was clear
Eubanks 2 losses - first was very close (debateable) the second was a SD, to the same fighter.

Kessler was favourite to win.
100 years of Boxing News claims Calzaghe was underdog, I have read Calzaghe was underdog but some posters claim he was betting favourite, though.

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Notes Eubank was a strong favourite, but dont know where the site got its info.

Both Ward and Calzaghe had dominant performances with Calzaghe scoring 2 KDs.

After the loss Kessler beat undefeated WBC champ Froch
After the loss Eubank fought WBO CW champ Thompson and lost a close decision scoring a KD. Eubank fought a return with the bigger Thompson and lost on injury when ahead. Thompson was a CW and the only fighter to have beaten D Haye.

I have read how people on ESB say Eubank was shot so -
How far past prime was Eubank to you then?
Eubank had lost a close decision to Collins, that many thought he won, had a couple of tune ups and rematched Collins to a SD, had a couple of tune ups and lost clearly to underdog Calzaghe. After that loss Eubank went up to CW and challenged world champ Thompson losing a very close decision and then rematched Thompson losing on injury when ahead. Thats Thompson who years later past his best KOd D Haye.
Consider Eubank only had 2 losses to one fighter when he fought Calzaghe, the second by SD to a world champ and was 31 then went on to challenge a big CW flooring him etc, how past his prime do YOU think he was?
Remember Kessler is Wards big win and was the same age as Eubank here and had around the same amount of fights, so is Kessler shot as well, because Kessler has a serious eye problems and was an unwell double vision suffering fighter who has been inactive for a while now due to his injury


Remember when you make silly comments about losses was G Johnson considered past his prime when years ago after losing to Hopkins he went 7-9-2 including the Hopkins loss

 

nobody counts that because ottke was a cheating ****, also, joe held all 4 belts, ottke didnt..therefore joe achieved more, full stop.

 

IMO Roy Jones JR holds that honour.

 

WHat it does is give a more objective ranking than the self-interested alphabet orgs. Don't remember much about that incident involving Jones.

Do you think The Ring is on equal footing with Boxing Monthly?

Now if you don't mind my asking, which of those 13 top 10 ranked were strictly Boxing Monthly and which were strictly The Ring?

Wasn't Ashira a MW? Was he ranked at SMW or MW?

Aside from it being part of the S6, Ward-Green generated absolutely NO buzz here in the US. Nobody I know of points to it as a signature win for Ward. It is and should be an afterthought. But what does Ward have to do with this? I'm not comparing Ward to Calzaghe.

As you say, those fights were of great interest in Britain, and rightfully so. Eubank was a signature win of Joe's, as was Reid. Woodhall wasn't bad. But these are highlights, man. As a whole, they're good wins, but not great.

Back then, the WBO as a whole wasn't as recognized, nor taken as seriously as any of the mainstream alphabet orgs. Because they produced belts at smw roughly at the same time does not change that.

If the ESB alphabet org comes out tomorrow, at the new weight class of junior cruiserweight, do you think fighters will take its belt, and pursue it as vigorously or as seriously as the wba or even wbo belts?

How is this even a discussion point?

Who said that?
I didn't say that those guys have done more than Veit. But they are all prospects man. Don't know much about Oousthuizen. But if the others were to fight the level of comp that Veit did on average, they could also run up a gaudy win total.

Do you think Veit would beat all/any of them?

I think you meant Degale.*

Bute does get plenty of criticism, almost as much as Calzaghe, there are some parallels. His IBF mandatories, and some of his defenses are poor.

Yes, those are good examples of poor examples as well. But you're talking about Beyer and Mundine. Neither is considered on a level, nor as much expected, as with Calzaghe.

 

Nah. Sonny Liston was.