~ Joe CALZAGHE v. Bernard HOPKINS ~ ANALYSIS and PREDICTION Thread ~

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Decebal, Jan 10, 2008.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    You really, really need to build a bridge where this is concerned. If Hopkins beats Calzaghe it does not neccesarily mean that the peak version would never have "mixed it with the American elites".
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    #241
  2. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    No ****, Sherlock!
     
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    #242
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    ;)
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    #243
  4. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    I don't think that way at all. If Hopkins does win, it will be because of that style advantage. It won't detract from Kessler, Mundine, and Andrade, but rather enhance Hopkins greatness and tactical brilliance. Because, truthfully, I still believe the three non-Americans you listed would beat Pavlik and Taylor.

    Euro-bums? No, never.
     
    brooklyn1550, Apr 18, 2008
    brooklyn1550, Apr 18, 2008
    #244
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Dec, :deal
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    #245
  6. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Bollocks! Because here's the thing! CALZAGHE IS PRETTY MUCH AT HIS PEAK!

    He doesn't have the same speed and reflexes, but he compensates for that with greater maturity, ring craft, self-control, confidence and self-belief.

    Calzaghe himself said last week he would be beating the crap out of the Calzaghe from 5 years ago (at his physical peak). He wasn't talking crap whatever nuthuggers want you to believe - they always argue that Calzaghe was much better overall 5 years ago to prop up their argument that he would have beaten the best American fighters at that time, had he had the chance.

    If Hopkins can beat Calzaghe tomorrow, any version of Calzaghe would have been beaten by any version of Hopkins since Hopkins became a world class fighter, because whilst Calzaghe is as good as he ever was, if not better, Hopkins is not...whatever miracles of conditioning the Americans might have performed on him.

    Hopkins is NOT close to his peak right now. He is badly faded, even if he is in peak physical shape...and the greater experience, ring-craft, etc. cannot compensate for his loss of physical form. The Hopkins from 5 years ago was better than the Hopkins that will turn up against Calzaghe tomorrow. Substantially better.
     
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    #246
  7. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Style advantage isn't as great as you make it out to be unless Calzaghe was overrated. This is because Calzaghe's style is versatile and responsive to start of with and because he should be much fitter and faster - if he isn't, it's his fault for not preparing properly. As simple as that. Sorry.
     
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    #247
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think he's past his absolute best though some of what you are describing makes him special still.

    But look at the things you have listed - maturity, ring-craft, self control, self-confidence, self-belief. These are all things that Hopkins probably does better/has more of.

    What you have to try to understand is, Calzaghe can be every bit as good as you think he is and still lose to Hopkins. Ali is still a head to head monster after losing (some say twice) to Ken Norton, and he proved it beating some of the best HW's ever. AFTER the loss. Armstrong lost a bucketload before becoming one of the best ever.

    Louis lost to Schmeling - the right man - during his absolute physical peak and went on to become the greatest HW ever. This obsession you have with a Hopkins win meaning you were "wrong" about Calzaghe, or that he was done is close to lunacy.

    And all before the opening bell.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    #248
  9. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    No...because Calzaghe is still close to his peak physically, unlike Hopkins who is way past his physical peak. The greater experience and cunning and ring-craft edge that Hopkins has is not greater than the physical edge that Calzaghe has, UNLESS Calzaghe was overrated and/or Hopkins can **** with Calzaghe's mind to make him fight the wrong fight a la Bika.
     
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    #249
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well I don't know quite how you feel you can quantify things so precisely - it seems to me that the only way such a thing can be calculated absolutely would be over 6 or 7 fights, and even then it has been proven that there are variables. Burley and Williams went 3-3-1 - surely that means they are almost perfectly matched? Seven fights. Nope. Once you learn that the NC was a horrific judgement on the part of the referee in question in one contest and that Burley threw his shoulder in round 9/15 in another, Burley well ahead on points both times, we have a different compection.

    Boxing just is not as infinantly quantifiable as you want it to be or appear to think it is. The short way of saying all of this; **** happens. And you really don't seem to allow for it.

    :conf
    This is a step in the right direction.

    Gives me hope.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    #250
  11. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Mate, I know **** happens, but why do you assume that if it happens, it can only happen to Calzaghe and not to Hopkins!?:huh

    Aren't you making the same mistake that you accuse me of making?

    Granted, Hopkins loses the plot less easily than Calzaghe, sure, but if Calzaghe loses the plot in such a big fight - he was overrated.

    What is a step in the right direction? What gives you hope?:huh
     
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    #251
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well for the purposes of our argument where I want to point out to you that Calzaghe can lose and still be the fighter you think he is, it is hardly relevant!!

    The "or" in that sentence, that you can see a way for Calzghe to lose and not be the consumate failure you seem to think losing to "old Bernard" makes him.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    #252
  13. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    No, mate. If Hopkins gets into his mind and he loses the plot, he was overrated. One thing is to fall for it against a guy like Bika you've never heard of on a bad night, another thing is to fall for it when you are expected to fall for it by all your critics.
     
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    #253
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :dead
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2008
    #254
  15. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    :-((

    I am no nuthugger, buddy. I call it as I see it, even when it hurts. See you tonight, at the weigh-in. I'm off now.
     
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    Decebal, Apr 18, 2008
    #255
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