Joe Calzaghe vs. Andre Ward

You're essentially making the mistake Mayweather haters make. You're are equating punching power with how you keep fighters from rushing in. No thats speed and timing.

If Ward doesnt have pop then why wasnt Kessler rushing in and able to land punches? Why was Ward rocking Kesslers head back?

 

Exactly, why did Ward have Miranda laying back scared to open up, why did Ward have AA's face bruised up and resorting to haymakers instead of trying to work his way in.

 

I was at the Thomas & Mack. I've had a second home in Vegas since '98. Joe was horrible. He looked like an INFERIOR athlete in the ring. Bernard (whose career I have followed since it began) looked poorly conditioned and OLD. That happens when you are in your 40s. You can as easily recapture your prior form for one night as come completely undone. Boxing is a bit of a one off sport as opposed to having a season or series of games or matches to cover for an off night. You know what comments were made about the fight that night in the casinos afterward? "BHOP should retire. BHOP is STILL fighting? He looked OLD!" The others were these: "Who was that other guy, he sure isn't any good", "BHOP should retire if he struggles with a guy like that now".

Joe was not young. But he was relatively pristine as he managed to avoid having any battles over such a long career. He flailed like a inept woman and wasn't as quick in his ability to react as a 43 year old man. He simply wasn't as good of an athlete/fighter but he was comparatively more energetic (i.e., younger).

When I mention BHOP's hand speed I'm telling you that Joe's hand speed looked NO better - and BHOP is NOT known or credited with having exceptional hand speed. Joe's hand speed is vaunted because of the clowns he has fought for the near entirety of his career. It only looks impressive by comparison (when viewed side by side with those who don't have ANY).

You mean like he didn't successfully do against the great David Starie? You mean like he didn't successfully do against Robin Reid? You mean like he didn't do in many MANY fights? Surely you realize that if you take out the 21 odd bums, old men, and other mediocrity from Joe's first 22 fights and note the few questionable ref stoppages in the remainder of his fights that Joe really isn't swarming and stopping ANYONE that matters? He certainly isn't swarming and stopping Andre Ward. That is ridiculous.

Remind me? I'm advancing but not so old that my memory is having any real issues yet. While I did attend my first professional fights beginning in the late 60s ('68 and '69), I have also seen every round and every second of every fight Joe was had. And, on a side note, it was a very good thing that Joe was 36 and Bernard was 43 and not the other way around. I would assure you that a late '90s Bernard could have added eight pounds of muscle and stopped Joe without any doubt. Bernard has been fighting in an era so dismal that it has allowed him to be past his prime for that long and still have a successful career to date. There is no doubt he never thought that was possible as the 90s ended.

That said, Joe would have has hands completely full with any version of Andre Ward.

 

Ward's best chance would be to try to dirty the fight up, I agree. It just would not be enough to win the fight. Like Hopkins, but probably without the knockdown.

Making someone supposedly look like a fool and winning a fight are two different things. Some felt Mosley made Pac look bad; Pac lost one round, total, on the scorecards. This isn't a bully contest -- it's a fight.

Kessler hits harder than Ward. So does Hopkins. Even if neither is stronger than him.

Calzaghe doesn't need to deter Ward with his power. Ward needs to deter Calzaghe, because of speed, workrate and style. And Ward could not, which is why he would lose.

If the match became a test of endurance, combination punching ability, speed or chin strength, Calz wins. So, if Ward wanted to come forward, Calz would like that; that works for how he fights.

The likely outcome, though, is that Ward is playing defense all fight -- mixed in with some rough-housing -- as Calz racks points up round after round.

People don't understand the level of pressure Calz puts on guys. It's like Margo, or Pac. Everyone thinks they can handle it until they're in there. I imagine Ward would feel similarly before the fight.

 

Kessler was not used to how Ward fought, the rough style. Calz is. Ask Sheika, I think it was. Or others. He likes that, and gives as good as he gets. You're not getting an advantage on Calz with those tactics, as Ward clearly did with a confused (and cut) Kessler.

Having enough power to make your opponent respect it means making them think twice about opening up on you. A well-placed, if weak, jab can snap the head back. That means nothing. Announcers and fighters talk about Ward's lack of power. It's not like I came up with the concept. He doesn't have many KO's.

Kessler is not an inside fighter, nor a particularly pressure-oriented fighter. Never has been. That's one reason Ward did well against him. MK has a Euro style. Calz is a totally different thing than that.

Calz would open up on Ward, probably from the start. Even after Hop knocked Calz down, Calz still was all over him. And I really doubt that Ward could come close to hurting Calz as Hopkins did. Which means an even rougher night for Ward.

 

Again power is meaningless. Its about speed and timing. Hopkins didnt stop CAlzaghe from rushing in because of his power. Hopkins hasnt stopped anyone since before since before 9/11. Hopkins made Calzaghe respect him because of his speed and timing. Really what makes you think Hopkins punches harder then Ward at 168 first of all? Who has Hopkins stopped? Hell who has he knocked down?

So CAlzaghe doesnt need to deter Ward from rushing through his slaps, putting his forhead in his chest and burying him into the ropes where he hits him repeatedly with baby hooks and uppercuts? Ward has pretty much done that to every fighter he's faced. What would calzaghes plan for that be?

Where has Ward ever shown the propensity to get tired? Where has Ward shown a bad chin?

Doubt it.

A 45 year old B Hop handled it just fine. So did Robin Reid. So did alot of fighters Calzaghe didnt KO. I can see a 27 year old Ward handling it just fine aswell.


Ward beat Kessler easier then Calzaghe did. He didnt need a 3 round adjustment period. Should probably think about that too.

 

What you say makes absolutely no sense, Ward hurt Kessler more than Joe C. did, yet you try to claim he doesn't have punching power? Then you say Ward needs to have power to keep Joe C. off of him, like Joe C. is some heavy handed brawler? **** Ward just kept AA off of him with ease and withstood his harder hitting flurries, yet you try to act like you are actually objective in saying it is a worry to whether he can keep Joe C. off? LOL.

The fight would be a test of ring/boxing IQ, which Joe C. lacks. Ward has the defense to negate Joe C's offense, he has the offense to puzzle Joe C. on the outside and the inside. Joe C. holds no advantage of Ward in skill nor ability, the only angle Joe C. could try to win on is activity, but against Ward, that would only open him up for counters.

Joe c. would be an underdog in my eyes, at best I would give him a couple of rounds in the beginning before Ward adjusts and takes him out, ala Floyd.

 

Calzaghe easy win!!! Probably would stop Ward. Bute will knock Ward out!!!

 

Go watch the first 4 rounds of the Kessler vs Ward fight. Ward fought most of it on the outside. And Kessler was getting his head snapped back and at one time got hit with a big hook and looked stunned.

Again you equate power with being able to keep guys at bay when its speed and timing. An amateurish mistake.

 

Tell me what the Showtime announcer said about AA's coming forward tonight and I'll give you a response to this. Here's a hint: AA doesn't ever come forward. This was new for him. Of course Ward kept AA off of him, not to mention AA gassed in like the 4th round.

How does Calz fight again? What's his style? Right.

Your pick is flawed, as is your reasoning. This is absurd:

Honestly, if you believe that, it will be hard to try to get you to understand how this fight is likely to play out. That's ok; you are entitled to think what you want, even if you are wildly off and your arguments aren't supported.

 

* Power is not meaningless. Ask Mosley about that. Power is what makes guys stop trying to attack

* Calz enjoys brawling. See: Sheika, Brewer fights. As well as other of his fights. Calz likes to mix it up. Why? Because his chin is better and his hands faster than nearly all of his opponents', to start, which means he usually gets the better of the brawling. Here's the point: If Ward fights his typical style, Calz will love it. It's like Sam Peter trying to say he's going to out-power Tyson. Bring it, Tyson would say

* Ward has gotten tired in virtually every single fight I have ever seen him in. He's not yet ODLH-level yet, but it's clear he fades late. This is when he usually starts to rough-house more, to help play defense when he's tired. The two left hooks that he got hit with in the last round? Yeah, he was trying to go for it more, to please the crowd, but he also was starting to wear down. This happens with him regularly

* Gus Johnson repeated the words of Abraham about Ward: He has no chin. This has been the rap on Ward since he was knocked down in, I think, his second pro fight and was later put down against some journeyman who's name escapes me. I think part of why Ward holds so much is to protect his chin

* Kessler was not cut over both eyes against Calzaghe. Neither did he complain of being headbutted vs Calz. Also, Calz had already beaten Kessler when MK fought Ward -- the confidence and aura were already gone, and a blueprint was out there, in some manner.

* Hopkins and Reid were both beaten by Calz. Ward is not at Hopkins' level as a fighter at this time; he does not have as much skill - or power, even if he is younger

 

It's funny. Froch dominates Abraham 12-zip and he's a "good fighter who finds ways to win." Ward wins about 10 rounds, has some difficulty early, adjusts and takes over and he's an ATG and the next Bernard Hopkins. Let me see Ward do this against somebody like Bute before I consider him a potential ATG. Many non greats would've handled Abraham.

 

Power is meaningless. Mosley wasnt afraid of Pacs power as much as Pac's speed and timing combined. You think Pac hits harder then Margarito? Why wasnt Mosley scared of Margarito?


Speed and timing dominates power everytime. You need to learn this.

Havent seen him get tired yet. Where has he gotten tired? He was mauling Kessler, Miranda and Green into the final rounds. He was still trying to beat up Abraham in the 12 tonight. I honestly have never seen this kid tired and he exerts himself more then any boxer in the business other then maybe Pacquiao. Nope dont see any stamina issues. Thats one of his main strengths actually.

He was hit with more then a few punches from Abraham who is a much stronger punch then the slap master. Was never hurt. How many times was Calzaghe knocked down in his career? I bet its more then Ward.

Ward dominated Kessler. Calzaghe took 3 rounds to figure Kessler out and Kessler was pretty much fine after the fight. Ward dominated him from start to finish. He was dominating before any headbutt landed.

Calzaghe won a SD over both. And Ward is far superior to Reid, and younger then Hopkins. Calzaghe hasnt dominated 1 A level opponent in his career. Infact he has struggled against B level opposition.

No way he has an easy time with Ward. YOu are massively overrating a guy with a very poor resume.

 

Maybe thats because Froch lost to Kessler and Ward dominated him as to why nobody tlks of Froch the same way :nut

 

There shouldn't be any votes for anybody by KO. :blood