Joe Calzaghe vs. Andre Ward

:good:good:goodBest post of the thread. That's all, folks! This is about it in a nutshell.

Look, I respect Andre Ward. But he's no Hopkins, and no Calzaghe. Maybe one day he can be at that level, but I doubt it.

There are people who think Froch beats Calzaghe, too. Just as there are now those who think Ward would beat Calzaghe. I would (and have) told the Froch crowd the same thing I'm now telling the Ward crowd.

 

Difference between Ward, Froch and Calzaghe. Is out of the 3, Ward dominated Kessler. They didnt.

 

Fair points, would still give Joe the edge on the outside. I'd expect Ward to jab in and make it more his kind of fight like he did against Kessler, though. Still, Joe holds some advantages that I think would help him in spots.

Even ancient Hopkins is a much superior counter-puncher in my eyes, which is why I think Calzaghe can rally with Ward. I mean, the guy looked good jabbing at stationary Abraham, and even then he still probably lost a round against an incredibly limited fighter. I'm still picking Ward, he's the better fighter. It will be the hardest fight he's had... I think that's fair.

 

I think Zig Zag Calzaghe edges it aswell. But blow out like some dudes are saying?


I big COME ON MAN.

 

* I have seen Ward tire in every fight he has ever fought. Admittedly, that isn't many. His stamina is not his greatest strength. If I have a chance, I'll try to look up some citations of others discussing the same thing

* Speed and timing does dominate. And both are edges to Calzaghe in a match-up with Ward. Especially in combination punching. This is like Floyd-Pac; people assume Floyd is faster when he probably isn't. Shane said as much. You're falling into a trap here. Ward has solid 1-punch speed and timing; he cannot match Calz in combination speed and timing, or outright speed or reflexes. He's close, but not there

* Calz has probably been down more than Ward. Again, why? Because he knows his chin can take it and he fights with abandon. Ward cannot, and so he does not. That's what happens when you get knocked down early in your career. I think Ward may have even adapted his style to the more brawling version you see now because of this matter (more holding to protect the chin)

* It's not about resume, it's about match-up. Calz' resume is superior -- he took down an unbeaten Kessler, defeated Eubank, beat Hopkins -- but that's not the point here. The point is he is the better fighter, and he would win in a head to head matchup with Ward. Probably fairly easily, too

* Calz is one of the best, most unique fighters I have ever seen. He is unbelievably competitive and skilled. The guy still had an insane motor, and speed, at the age of 36. There will be few more like him, and Ward simply isn't in his class. That's ok, but that's where it stands. I do think Ward will run off a great string of victories, though, provided he tops Froch and Bute. So, he may get to 46-0 or whatever

 

He might just be jumbling peak and prime.

He's in his prime, but may not have hit his peak yet. :good

 

easily best post on here

 

Yeah, it would be a close and competitive fight I think. No blowout, of course, this affirms that Calzaghe is still slightly overrated by a lot of his fans.

I don't want to say don't bother arguing with Paul but don't bother. When it comes to information outside the ring, debate him all you want. But to me, he's transparently nonobjective when it comes to processing the information he sees. You see a little of it here "Ward clearly tires at the end of fights." I mean... really? Noticeably? Then he tries going on about how Vitali made it a mission to stop punching and purposely hold, lean on, and walk down Lennox Lewis during the later stages of their fight in order to win over with a long term strategy. Yeah, Lewis punches and Vitali clinging on for dear life didn't convey any sign of Vitali being hurt or exhausted. But Ward clearly fades down the stretch of fights. :roll:

Oh yeah, Paul admits it was a bad strategy on Vitali's part because of that horrendous cut (Ya Think!). But swears that he still would've stopped Lewis in the next round, or some time later in the fight. What an entertaining strategy, too. You're not dealing with reality here MW.

 

Andre Ward ****ing sucks. Calzaghe would own him. Even in Oakland,where this thug bum won't leave.

 

Sigh.

Go and watch Vitali vs Lewis, Round 6 (final round of the fight), with around 25 seconds or so left in the round. Tell me who gets hurt and legs start to give (probably largely due to fatigue, which is part of the point). This stuff is so sad, the revisionist history. But that's ok, I try to achieve a deeper level of analysis than most, so I expect others to miss things I don't.

Now, does Ward tire late because he's working harder than the opponent? Perhaps so. But that's not the question. The question is: Does Ward tire in his fights? I say yes, because I've seen that myself. Everyone gets tired, maybe I'm just picking it up more with Ward. That could be. But I have definitely seen where Ward wants to tie-up, rather than fight, because he is tired later in a fight. I saw it tonight. Is it a fatal flaw? Depends on who you're fighting.

However, in this match-up, who's going to tire first, Calz or Ward? If I have to answer that, then I probably shouldn't be arguing with you.

Calz breaks people with his pace. Ward does not. Maybe that's the best way to say it, for this thread.

 

Do people not realize the MASSIVE speed advantage Joe has?

 

No, you don't get it: Ward has a HUGE speed advantage over Joe. Really. Honest. I swear. (Please Believe Me). :rofl

Good luck with this argument, even if you are correct (and I agree Calz is faster -- particularly in throwing combinations). Some people just can't hear what is being said. They don't want to hear.

 

I think the counter punching is key here, Pete. Can Ward get off first? I don't think he would. Ward likes to dictate the tempo by fighting at a measured pace before picking it up, and would try to fight to slow things down. And if he can't prevent Calzaghe from getting off first and attacking, does he have the counter-punching ability to really make Calzaghe pay for pressing the action (especially if Joe utilizes the openings Ward leaves for the jab to set everything else up)? Perhaps Andre does, but I haven't seen it out of him yet. That's a big reason why, as of now, I'd favor Calzaghe in this matchup.

How Ward fares against Bute (if that fight gets made eventually) would tell us much more about how he may approach a Calzaghe fight and if he could do it successfully. Bute and Calzaghe are different fighters, of course, but there's more similarity there by a longshot compared to the slower, immobile opposition we've seen Ward in against so far.