Joe Calzaghe vs. Andre Ward

Ward is too technical for Calzaghe. Ward by unanimous decision. He'd out-think, out-fox and out-box Joe C, he'd land a lot more punches than Calzaghe would. Ward would make him miss and make him look amateurish... but Ward is young enough and fresh enough to match Calzaghe's workrate, and well, that's Calzaghe out of ammunition then.

 

I'm not watching Lewis-Vitali for the 1000th time. I just see when you have an apparent agenda or bias that see observations through a filtered lens. It's just my opinion, and I think you're capable of being a good poster a lot of the times when you're outside that lens or focal point.

Deeper level of analysis. Geez man, you've gotten crushed in this debate. You hold onto nonsense like speed, power, stamina. One level type ****, that's what your analysis has been. You have no right to be as arrogant as you are when you're getting schooled and proven ignorant about important style aspects of boxing.

You think Calzaghe has better timing than Ward for Christ Sake.

The bold is where your major problems lie. You SEE things, and often times you perceive these things to be the undeniable truth. Your perception of Ward looking tired or fading down the stretch of fights could be something actually correct on your part. But, it's likely untrue and not so apparent like you make it out. In fact, the evidence leads to the contrary. Maybe this is where your deep level analysis gets you in trouble. You perceiving Ward of tying up more because he's tired (Because honestly, to even conclude he blatantly ties up his opposition is one thing. Or that it's not a matter of strategy or tactics like you claim for Vitali) is almost as much as an assumption as saying Pac looks suspicious of being on PEDs because he won't fight Mayweather. You know what tired looks like? AA patenting like a dog after the 3rd or 4th round. That's a look of a tired fighter.

Calzaghe has superior stamina. But let's put it this way. Ward probably has better stamina than anyone Calzaghe has ever fought, or that has troubled him. Better than Kessler, better than old Hopkins who can only fight in spurts. It's not as much as a major factor that you try to make it out. Ward breaks fighters down activity, too. I see Calzaghe out-work fighters. I'm pretty sure Ward was breaking down Kessler and Green not solely because of his in-fighting ability but his workrate. Andre Ward prides himself on his dedication and training. He constantly says that some fighters can be better than you or have advantages, but he doesn't want any fighter to have outworked him. This is the way he talks... he's oldschool.

 

Joe UD

 

calzaghe hands down.

 

This is a very fair and well balanced post. You make a good point. Ward looks to measure fighters out a bit. I'd expect Calzaghe to do the same. Calzaghe may be able to get off first but can Ward maintain or keep the fight at close distance, because if he can he has a massive advantage on the inside. I think Calzaghe's footwork and "counter-punching" are the keys here. The thing is... Calzaghe likes to move forward and fight. He doesn't back-peddle or move around much... he tries to swarm you. Does that ever play into Ward's hands? Like I said earlier, if Ward was a better counter-puncher like B-Hop I'd pick him with ease. He's the more well-rounded fighter in my eyes.

Even I have to admit that even if I do pick Ward by a really close decision, at the end of the day Calzaghe should still be the favorite. We haven't seen Ward in enough elements to truly forecast such a fight. But again, the poll is probably too skewed toward Calzaghe odds wise.

 

Calzaghe - advantage hand speed

 

yea bro and has an amazing gas tank.

 

his windshield bends but does not break

 

hahaha

 

Everyone is allowed to think what they want, or perceive me -- or others -- how they want. That's fine.

I'm not arrogant, even though I know some people find my writing that way. I'm confident in what I say and my ability to break down what I see. Am I always right? Nope. I was DEAD wrong on Pavlik-Hopkins, and happily so. But I do see things, oftentimes, others dont. I was way out in front of Margo/Cotto, for instance.

I think you respect my intelligence ("out of ring" stuff, etc). Thanks. But if I know some of that out-of-ring stuff, why couldn't the same abilities be used to break down boxing matters, too? You would probably say because of bias. Ok, fair.

Does Ward have superior stamina to the people who gave Calzaghe problems, or all the guys that Calzaghe fought? I'd have to look through Calz' fights to answer your question. Four guys dropped Calz: Mitchell, Salem, Hopkins, Jones. I don't know how Ward's stamina compares with Mitchell and Salem when they fought Calzaghe. Kessler's stamina was quite good, if I recall, in his fight with Calz.

I know Ward trains hard. That's not necessarily the point. A person who is predisposed to be weak in the upper body can train for years and still will never be able to bench press much. A boxer who doesn't have natural punching power isn't likely to suddenly develop it during their career. Hard work is key, but some people have better natural endurance or lung capacity than others. I'm not saying Ward has no stamina, but I have never marveled at his stamina, either. Calzaghe, on the other hand, is a stamina freak. He is in the very top tier of fighters I can recall in that aspect.

The ability to analyze means being able to take something "X" and see it in situation "Y." Abraham isn't a legit 168 pounder. Miranda is limited. Green is not a great fighter (at least not in my book).

Kessler was a good test for Ward. Ward fought great. There was already a book on how to beat Kessler. Calzaghe's book. Calz didn't bust up Kessler's eyes. Props to Ward on that, but if Calz was in the same situation, the fight looks different. Ask Roy Jones.

I respect Ward a ton. I do. He is talented, works hard and has an excellent skill set. And he's still learning.

However, taking the "X" here (Ward) and putting it in situation "Y" (Ward vs Calz), I just can't see it. And I'm not a blind loyalist to fighters I like, nor do I pick "the white guy" over "the black guy," or crap like that. I picked Floyd for years over Pac even though I can't stand Floyd. I picked Ward with ease over Abraham tonight. I call it as I see it, even if people don't agree with how I see it. That's ok, nobody has to.

Calzaghe is a buzzsaw. As I mentioned, like Pacquiao or like Margarito. If you can't get these guys off of you (hurt or discourage them) or engage them full out, you can't win. The pace is too much. Mosley hurt Margo -- win; Pac hurt Margo and had a wide advantage in speed -- win. Ward isn't seriously hurting Calzaghe and he definitely doesnt have a Pac/Margo speed advantage over Calzaghe.

If Ward opens up in this fight -- like JMM and Morales did with Pac to get a draw and a win (both vs the no-right-hand Pac; JMM lost to more-of-a-right-hand Pac later) -- he could get hurt, and would be at more of a disadvantage than would Calz. Ask Byron Mitchell or Kabary Salem about that. Calz can brawl and take you out if you fight him like that and he's motivated to do so. Thus, Ward would have to be careful of that possibility. People think Ward would mug Calz. Are you kidding me? Calz likes that kind of fight; it jacks him up.

There are more ways Calz can win this fight than Ward can win it. I'm not trying to diss Ward. I simply have more respect for what Calz can do and what I have seen tells me Calz wins the fight, and probably wins it more handily than some think. Could Ward dirty things up and make the fight closer? Yes. Do I still think Calz would win in that scenario? Yes, like in the Hopkins fight.

Could I be wrong? Definitely.

 

calzaghe is on of the greatest h2h fighters between 168-175, calzaghe ud 117-111, froch beats ward

 

Calzaghe would be all over Ward like a rash, Calzaghe UD

 

yea definetly would be a UD.

 

Calzaghe.. UD..

 

probably Ward, but we'll never know. gotta love the "what if" threads. no solution.

Ward's too young for Calzoggy to face anyway