Joe Calzaghe vs. Andre Ward

I noticed that Michigan Warrior voted for a Ward KO - a flawed argument.

 

I knew there was something odd about that fight.

Calz hurt his hand early in the bout. It was either a badly hurt or broken hand. That made the fight closer than what it would have been, kind of like Mayweather/Castillo I.

Calz used to be more of a power puncher until he started having the hand issues. I think that started with the Reid fight.

 

Thks.


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Really all anyone who wants to be objective needs to do is put up one of several examples from the comparable period .. such as the video of Calz vs Starie in which Joe was on a big stage .. only about 7 months older than Ward today and ask yourself what Ward would have done to the then 25 year old Starie. Joe takes most of the rounds but struggles for the entire 12 rounds in trying to stamp any control over the pedestrian athletic talent of David Starie. It isn't hard to envision Andre Ward utterly annihilating Starie.

Put up all of Joe's fights when both fighters were approximately the same age and watch them side by side. Watch Joe's fights with Eubank, Sobot, Jimenez, Reid, Thornberry, Starie, Sheika, & Woodall (from late '97 when he won the title until late '00 when he was almost 29). Then watch Ward's against Miranda, Pudwill, Kessler, Green, Bika, & Abraham (from the middle of '09 until now and soon the championship fight against either Froch or Johnson).

Since we don't have a late 20s early 30s Ward to watch yet just compare Calz and Ward at the same age.

Anyone who is objective will have a very hard time viewing Joe's fights side by side without noting that Ward is more polished, far better defensively, and a superior ring general already. Joe gets hit far more and is far less impressive in his wins. Ward faces better competition, is more diverse, and has more tools. Joe would ALWAYS have his back against it in facing someone with the athleticism and skill of Andre Ward. Only by finding the perfect moment and mix of variables - such as matching Joe in his 30s on his best day against a young version of Ward right as he gains the title could one foresee the possibility of everything going right and Joe nicking a close fight. Outside of that ....

In the end the main thing that Joe will actually have accomplished that Ward might not is one of longevity (i.e., fifteen years). Ward will not have the luxury and the circumstance to protect a belt against lousy comp for that long. He is already facing far stiffer comp in half the time and that should result in a shorter career if he were merely at the same level of talent as Joe Calzaghe. Only by facing the perfect collection of stiffs and old men could one expect to remain pristine into one's middle 30s and match Joe's paper record. Since Andre won't have a division as devoid of talent as during Joe's career he will have to be undeniably superior to Calzaghe to stay at the top for another eight years.

Fortunately, the 27 year old is a fighter and is not concerned about protecting his "O" and is already set to face either veteran Carl Froch or Glen Johnson next. He will undoubtedly find his way into big fights with Bute and/or Dirrell at some point too (if they want it). Within another two or three fights he will have exceeded the level of comp Joe faced over his entire long career. Ward won't be capping off a string of weak opposition for a decade and then finally taking two potentially meaningful fights before asking for fights with BHOP's or RJJ's corpse to cap a career.

Still, it is true that Ward will (likely) not be as beloved in America (as the entire sport has simply been long long out of favor for a myriad of reasons with only a couple exceptions to that trend) as being one of the rare talents from a more homogeneous pool that has given Joe so many dedicated (compatriot) sycophants and willing defenders of a now mythical ring prowess that was demonstrated always (only) on the most favorable of terms and almost never against particularly substantive competition. Overlooking those facts is much easier when you are young and the (apparent) need for validation and a hero is so evidently compelling.

 

2 points.

You are either massively overrating Miranda Green Bika AA and that version of Kessler or underatting those versions Eubank, Reid, Starie, Sheika and Woodhall if you think there is a big diference between them. Eubank, Woodhall and Reid are a match for any of em and Starie and Sheika are a match for Miranda Green and Bika.

Calzaghe went on to not lose in another 15 or so world title fights. Do you honestly expect Ward to do the same? Winning on your bad nights and against varied opposition year in year out should not be underestimated. If it was so easy everyone would be world champ for a decade.

 

nono:nono

Never anything remotely resembling a powerpuncher. Never.

 

What makes you think Calslappy has a better chin?

 

Ward by TKO
cjboboy, MichiganWarrior



Now that does surprise me... is cjboboy another one of the hick's aliases?

 

Great post.

 

Great post. Im going to watch some old Calzaghe film today see how he was at Wards age.

 

:happy:happy:happy

By far the most reasoned and informed post on this thread.

 

Excellent stuff.

The prime Robin Reid that Calzaghe fought is better than anybody on Ward's resume bar Kessler.

Calzaghe beat a better version of Kessler aged 35.

Mario Veit was as good as Green and Joe blew him away in a round.

 

Back at ya all. Thks.

 

Lets revisit this after the super 6 ..I mean Ward still has some more to prove ..

 

Calzaghe had difficulty when BHop either was too close or out of range.

What Ward has shown is that he can control range well, especially in the Kessler and Green fights.

Ward UD12 Calzaghe IMO.

Calzaghe's work rate will not tire out Ward, Ward can fight the full 15. Also Sakio Bika roughed up Calzaghe, Ward is a little less rougher but can do that sort of damage aswell.

 

Brit has it correct. Joe had a couple of nice attributes but retired without testing himself.