Joe Calzaghe vs. Andre Ward

Before we continue, list 5 specific things Hopkins is superior than Ward in. Because, I do not consider Hopkins to be outright superior, nor as complete or as well-rounded at that point in his career than Ward is now. List something less vague than "craftiness." I'll give you power, so now you have 4 more. And maybe you're right on Ring IQ, but I'd rather a more specific, provable quality (EX. Speed, power, stamina, in-fighting, combinations, etc). And the real reason I don't want to give you RING IQ is because I consider Ward now to be a better Ring General than a 43 year old Hopkins. That sort of overlaps the category, and it really isn't Hopkins fault, he's just much older and so his physical abilities have declined so he can't bank on doing as much as he could when he was younger in a fight.

 

We don't know that Ward is in his prime yet. Ward right now probably beats him however.

 

I don't think Ward is prime yet so who knows.

But, I think prime Calzaghe beats the Andre Ward of today.

 

Calzaghe never beat a single fighter as good as Ward. Maybe he could rise to the occasion but given his **** poor fundamental skills I don't see it as being very likely.

 

My notes underlined.

 

Bull****.

The average standard of WBO 168lb champion up to and including Joe was higher than that of any of the other belts. Champions make belts not vice versa.

Furthermore the WBO 168lb belt was fully legitimate at least from the time a reigning WBC 168 champ failed to beat the reigning WBO 168lb champ when they fought.

 

Notes underlined.

 

No shot there; I can't accept your premise. Hopkins is an all-time great ring general, and his ability to think is what let him stay competitive even as he aged. We'll have to disagree on that one. Ward may get close to Hop's level at some point, but that is years and years from now. You can't expect a guy who has been in the pros for 7 years to have the same knowledge and feel that a guy who has been around for 20 years has. Particularly when the 20-year guy is Hopkins, who has one of the all-time-great minds for the game. Ward may be able to execute in certain respects (more speed, etc) better than the older Hop, but he's definitely not out-thinking him.

Now, things which Hopkins (that faced Calz) was better at than Ward

1. Power
2. Ring Generalship -- Including "spoiler" tactics. Ward is very good at this, but not at Hops level. Then again, who is?
3. Gameplanning/Adapting -- Devising a strategy for an opponent, sticking with it during the fight, being able to adjust during the fight. Again, can't expect Ward to be at Hopkins level. Ring Generalship, for me, is tactics: Holding, stick-and-move, etc. Gameplanning is strategy, devising what your tactics will be
4. Chin -- Until a 45-year-old Hopkins was knocked down twice against LHW Pascal, The Executioner had been down just 1 time in his first 58 fights. Ward, on the other hand, is not regarded as having a particularly good chin

Now, that's 4 things. And that's enough. I could probably name more, but I'll just stay there because those are enough to make my point.

You do not need a laundry list of checklist items to be a better fighter than another man. What you need is the totality of your attributes to be more than the sum of the other guy's attributes.

For example, many of the fighters Mike Tyson fought had better size and reach than Tyson had. Some had excellent chins. Others (Spinks) probably were super tacticians (though I'm not conceding that point), better counter-punchers, more stamina, etc.

So, you might be able to go down a checklist and mark more boxes, then, for some of Tyson's past opponents that he beat.

What turned the tide in Tyson's favor? Power. That one thing trumped everything else. Ditto for guys like Julian Jackson.

In the end, it's the sum of your abilities against the sum of the other guy's abilities.

Bernard Hopkins is a boxing master. A throwback. A freak. You saw what he did to Pavlik, and Hopkins was older then than when he faced Calz. He beat Pascal, the LHW champion, just a few months ago, and was robbed.

This is a guy -- and old guy -- who can toy with unbeaten fighters and champions. Not just beat them, but clown them and break their will. He's not perfect (see the Taylor fights), but he is an all-time great who primarily relies on his mind for his greatness.

That's why I say he was superior, when he fought Calz, to the Ward of today. Because of his mind. Power, chin too. But mostly because he knows exactly what to do, when to do it, etc.

And he can still do it, except he ran out of gas some against Calz. Why? Not just because Hop is old -- who else wore him out like that? -- but because Calz' pace wore him down. Even with Hopkins' spoiler tactics, his stalling, Calz wore him down. That's what Calz does.

Hopkins of Calz fight > Andre Ward today, at least in a potential match-up with Calz.

 

These two are not KO artists, so a safe bet is a decisi

 

No KO here. Ward is too raw in this fight. Jc is the obvious choice. Give Ward some time to prove his ability. If he can he might have a shot, but remember jc is a super conditioned boxer / slapped.

 

If we had a prime Calzaghe of about 2003-2007 he wins a clear UD.

 

This is sentence after sentence that adds up to nothing. Ward would tool Pavlik and the amateurish Pascal worse than Hopkins did. If Hopkins and Ward fought now Ward would be stronger, younger, faster, and possess greater stamina than Hopkins. Any advantage Hopkins has in ability would be much less than the wide gulf the existed he and Taylor where he struggled. As great as Hopkins is Ward beats the Hopkins who face calzaghe by a safe margin.

 

There is no reason to believe he WBO was a legit sanctioning body with legit practices when Joe won the title. It was a paper only title always picked from the trash and handed to the guy who paid fees. They would allow optional defenses against anyone. Look at the list of bums who held the title in the early years of Joe's career and it's pathetic. Currently the WBO is similar to the other sanctioning bodies which still means it is shitty but not nearly so much as it was 90's/early 2000's.

 

degale would beat both!

 

Calzaghe