Joe Calzhage vs James Toney?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KeedCubano, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. KeedCubano

    KeedCubano Read my posts in a Jamaican accent Full Member

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    Peak for peak at 168, who wins?
     
  2. impacted

    impacted Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'd pick the Toney of the Barkley and Williams fights over any version of Calzaghe. Too much variety in his counterpunching, and Toney's defensive ability would have had Joe missing regularly.
     
  3. Scratch

    Scratch Active Member Full Member

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    Two absolutely complimentary (in terms of styles, "complementary" probably isn't a term I'd go out of my way to apply to Toney in any other context) one-offs in one fight.

    My money would be on Toney but it'd be an astounding thing to see.
     
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  4. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Calzaghe was odd because he was an untelegraphed arm puncher, usually an arm puncher is a telegraphed puncher because he has to pull his arm back if he's not pivoting his feet or turning his hips.

    A fighter who loads up like Barkley (or, say, Benn) Toney can eat up because he can read them. Calzaghe is all wrong for him. It's not like James worked outside and kept you there - he invited you in close and Calzaghe has those in-tight hooks and flurries of short punches.

    Calzaghe takes this on points even though Toney is the better and greater fighter.
     
  5. Devon

    Devon Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Joe Calzaghe on points both ways, he would beat Toney on the inside and even more so on the outside, Calzaghe showed that he was good enough to beat everyone he faced and he faced everyone at super middleweight, so I don't see why it's fair to pick against him, especially against Toney, Toney had slow feet, that's why he lay on the ropes and waited for opponents to come to him, if Calzaghe used his feet, kept his distance and used his straight punches like in the Kessler fight and backed Toney up, he'd win clearly, how can Toney get near Calzaghe if Calzaghe keeps a good work rate and keeps throwing them fast straight punches in this face? Calzaghe has the faster hands, faster feet and better straight punches, all he has to do id keep it at range.
    If he decided to fight on the inside, I do believe that it would be a hell of a lot closer and I do believe Toney is the more skilled on the inside, but Calzaghe is one of the great inside fighters also, Toney would be trying to couner on the inside, Toney likes to fight on the inside at a leisurely pace, but I believe Calzaghe would overwhelm Toney on the inside with those fast 'Joe Calslappy' punches, they would be coming in so fast, Toney wouldn't have a chance to counter
    Counter punchers like Toney like people to come straight forward, or telegraph their punches so they have more time to see the punch coming and counter punch, Calzaghe don't telegraph his punches, he's probably the most notorious for not telegraphing and Toney wouldn't have enough time to see the punches coming and counter, Calzaghe would just fire a few straight punches in his face and keep his punches long, and Toney would be attempting to counter and be falling short with Calzaghe just taking half a step back and possibly tying him up and throwing a few slappy punches and getting back at range, it would be similar to the Lacy fight except Calzaghe would have to be sharper and concentrate more
    In conclusion I believe Calzaghe wins on points either way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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  6. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I don’t think that it would have looked anything like the Lacy fight.

    James would have trash talked him at every opportunity and lured him into a tear up.

    Joe was always susceptible to right hands. Even against low level fighters.

    Joe could have won if he’d have applied educated pressure and stuck to a disciplined game plan. But I can’t see it. I think James would have landed the crisper, cleaner shots on the inside.

    He’d have had to have been sharp and motivated though, like he was against Barkley and Littles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  7. escudo

    escudo Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So a guy who throws loopy arm punches is going to go inside with one of the most accurate and prolific counter punchers of all time. And he's gonna win, you say?
     
  8. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oh absolutely, but not stay in there. In and out, obviously.
     
  9. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I think it looks like the Hopkins-Calzaghe fight where Calzaghe lands more less clean but Toney lands the better harder punches
     
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  10. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Calzaghe wins on volume I think.

    Toney would have to catch him clean with something big.
     
  11. KeedCubano

    KeedCubano Read my posts in a Jamaican accent Full Member

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    LOL
     
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  12. 88Chris05

    88Chris05 Active Member Full Member

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    Can't believe there are a couple of people here talking about Calzaghe besting Toney on the inside. Seriously? Calzaghe was no inside fighter. Toney would eat him up if it became that kind of fight. Calzaghe could win this, but not in that way.
     
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  13. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nonsense. Calzaghe was a square-on, wide-stanced southpaw who bent at the knees in front of you and punched in the many clinches; however he had the ability to move in and out of range as he finally showed against Lacy.

    If he tried staying outside jabbing Toney counters him to bits.
     
  14. 88Chris05

    88Chris05 Active Member Full Member

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    It's not nonsense at all. Calzaghe was at his best opening up at mid-range, when both guys had room and he could get off first and effectively. He was often passive in the clinches, accepting them, not punching his way out, getting tied up / moved around in them. It's one of the reasons his famed work rate and punch output tailed off against guys like Starie, Bika and Hopkins - guys who roughed it, clinched etc. Contrary to what his fanatics claim, he didn't throw 1,000 punches or more in every fight. Guys like that whittled his numbers down appreciably because he was often controlled in clinches and didn't let go with shots right in close. They all made him look pretty average, too. He needed that bit of space.

    He had his skills but inside fighting wasn't one of them.
     
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  15. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Now we're playing word games. I'm not suggesting his head on Toney's chest. He wasn't a mover who threw long punches or used the ring, he got off winging tight punches in succession inside the outside range, and could move in and out against a flat-footed opponent as shown at 34 at the end.