Joe Cazalghe would beat a prime James Toney

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by sarah_yates1974, Nov 10, 2008.


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  1. sarah_yates1974

    sarah_yates1974 Guest

    Yes, he would. I'm seeing alot of Joe vs Jones thread and you know what? Saturday's fight told us one thing: Joe would have been a prime Jones' toughest opponent absolutely without a shadow of doubt. Who'd win in a matchup prime for prime? Who knows possibly Jones but historic romantacism can play havoc on unbiased observations. I'm going to rewatch my RJJ DVD collection and come back to that. I don't make brash statements I reasearch and analyze these things before committing.

    Now, this leads me to the point of this thread: James Toney

    Yes I realize Toney has alot of fans here but even in his prime he wasn't anywhere near as mobile on his feet as Joe and he certainly doesn't have the footwork nor the angles; Joe is a superior inside fighter and certainly a better exterior one too and most importantly takes a punch to throw a punch. Toney would not be able to close the gap, is not as wiley as Hopkins and certainly not as adaptable as Hopkins or Calzaghe. He's good at what he does but he is none the less a 1-trick poney. Variety he cannot do!

    The strongest point of contention in this argument for Toney could be tha Toney is hard to hit and the simple fact about that is his biggest fights have been against low output pot shotters who primarily aims for the head not the body and score point - a classic mistake. Although in stark contrast to that he did beat Holyfield in an inside game. Holyfields own inside game I might add.

    His HW achievements are commendable and certainly he carries the extra weight better than Calzaghe ever could at HW but Jones made Toney look bad. I'll ask you to go rewatch that fight (Toney vs Jones), look at the footwork and angles Toney atempted and you'll come the the same conclusion I have: Toney was afraid to commit, showed little variety plus a complete unwillingness to (even attempt to) adapt in any way shape or form. Joe or a veteran Hopkins would have tried every trick in the book, remember, variety is the spice of life. (*Please note* I am not saying in this thread Hopkins or Joe beat a prime Jones I'm saying threy would have fared better than Toney.)
     
    sarah_yates1974, Nov 10, 2008
    sarah_yates1974, Nov 10, 2008
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  2. JonOli

    JonOli Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I find this one hard to call. On the one had I say Calzaghe enjoys himself with his movement, on the other I think Toney is in counter punching heaven.
     
    JonOli, Nov 10, 2008
    JonOli, Nov 10, 2008
    #2
  3. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Prime Jones beats Calzaghe about 9 rounds to 3.

    Prime Calzaghe beats prime Toney about 8 rounds to 4, maybe 7 to 5.
     
    Sweet Pea, Nov 10, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Nov 10, 2008
    #3
  4. JonOli

    JonOli Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Toney is pretty good on the inside. :D
     
    JonOli, Nov 10, 2008
    JonOli, Nov 10, 2008
    #4
  5. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    I doubt it
     
    catasyou, Nov 10, 2008
    catasyou, Nov 10, 2008
    #5
  6. camden1nj

    camden1nj Active Member Full Member

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    Toney would knock that guy out. Calzaghe's chin has shown to be suspect and fought Jones and Hopkins who couldn't capitalize. Jones beat Toney and Hopkins at their primes. Toney was a much better fighter than Joe. The guy took shots from Peter in 2 fights and arguably beat him once. Joe a better inside fighter! You can't be serious. Toney beat McCallum when he was at his best. Toney beat Mike Nunn when he was at his best in his backyard. Both of those guys were better than Kessler will ever dram to be.
     
    camden1nj, Nov 10, 2008
    camden1nj, Nov 10, 2008
    #6
  7. Axe

    Axe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Epic fail.
     
    Axe, Nov 10, 2008
    Axe, Nov 10, 2008
    #7
  8. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Joe is not a superior inside fighter to Toney at his best. Toney would have the advantage there in fact, though it'd be closer than most Toney supporters would have you believe. Joe's advantages are primarily in his footspeed, adaptability, and outside game.
     
    Sweet Pea, Nov 10, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Nov 10, 2008
    #8
  9. sarah_yates1974

    sarah_yates1974 Guest

    You're right he is very good I thought someone might bring that up ;) It's just he's quite immobile in the upper half of his body when he throws combo's and though he throws them with more conviction than Joe he doesn't have the angles or the upper body movement.
     
    sarah_yates1974, Nov 10, 2008
    sarah_yates1974, Nov 10, 2008
    #9
  10. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    McCallum was past his prime and arguably won both of the first two fights, though they were razor thin decisions. Nunn was winning the fight prior to Toney KO'ing him in the 11th, including a lot of the inside work.

    Toney's inside game started to perfect itself as he became more and more flat-footed, so while he gained in one area, he deteriorated in another.
     
    Sweet Pea, Nov 10, 2008
    Sweet Pea, Nov 10, 2008
    #10
  11. pugilist64

    pugilist64 Guest

    The only thing Toney could beat Joe at is a doughnut eating contest.
     
    pugilist64, Nov 10, 2008
    pugilist64, Nov 10, 2008
    #11
  12. JonOli

    JonOli Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Toneys inside fighting in the Jirov fight was great. Admittedly that was away from his "prime".
     
    JonOli, Nov 10, 2008
    JonOli, Nov 10, 2008
    #12
  13. charlievint

    charlievint Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :lol: Styles make fights! JOE style is made for James TOney who is a natrual and insticual counter puncher. Joe is a volume puncher. One who throws a lot of punches is countered more easily than a less active fighter. i.e. PAC vs JMM.....PAC a volume puncher and JMM a counter puncher.....the difference is PAC has some awesome natrual gifts that are uncommon (Power, Speed, reflexes) which allows him to continually beat his stylistic nightmare who is known as JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ. This would not be the case with James vs Joe
     
    charlievint, Nov 10, 2008
    charlievint, Nov 10, 2008
    #13
  14. miketysonko

    miketysonko Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hard one to call, but I think Toney would take it, he punches harder and his ring knowledge is second to none!
     
    miketysonko, Nov 10, 2008
    miketysonko, Nov 10, 2008
    #14
  15. Royal-T-Bag

    Royal-T-Bag Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    toney by late TKO/KO
     
    Royal-T-Bag, Nov 10, 2008
    Royal-T-Bag, Nov 10, 2008
    #15
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