Joe Choynski's passionate rant about Bob Fitzsimmons

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Melankomas, Jan 2, 2024.


  1. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

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    Interesting article I found:

    In 1943, the year of his death at the age of seventy-five, Joe Choynski had one last rage against the dying light. He did what old men do when they can no longer hit their tormentors. He got up out of his chair and painted physical pictures with sweeps of his arms and animated impressions of how he could move back in the glory days.

    It was the mention of Bob Fitzsimmons that set old Chrysanthemum Joe in motion, pulling him away from his glass of wine and the sunshine that bathed the living room window of his Cincinnati home. There was no love lost between Fitz and Joe. Choynski called Bob a “cur” and didn’t give a damn who knew it.

    Whatever had happened between the two men all those years before will now forever remain a mystery. But there was a certain poison in Choynski’s long rant about Fitzsimmons. Was it old age and a touch of senility? Was it jealousy? There was a lot of surmise attached to Joe’s complaints, which always weakens a man’s argument.

    With dark passion, Choynski said: “Fitzsimmons wasn’t the kind of person you could trust. He’d tell you one thing to your face and then stick a knife in your back. It happened to me many times. He did the same thing to Kid McCoy and Tommy Ryan.

    “Of course, I don’t like to say these things publicly because after all, Bob is dead and can’t talk back. I know that if our positions were reversed, with me buried under six feet of dirt and Fitzsimmons here by this window relishing the warm sun, I would expect him to hold his tongue about me. But those are personal things.”

    Having got that off his chest, Choynski decided to shovel some more dirt on top of Bob anyway. Reaching for a record book and flipping through the pages, Joe said: “Take for example Fitzsimmons’ fight with Gus Ruhlin. The book shows that Ruhlin was stopped in the fifteenth round. But it doesn’t say what condition Fitzsimmons was in at the time.

    “I’ll tell you, I was there and I know. He was bathed in his own blood. His eyes were swollen into slits and his nose was smashed. Ruhlin was stalking him, getting ready to knock him out, when Fitz let go a desperate punch which, luckily for him, landed squarely.

    “In his match with Tom Sharkey, Fitz was saved by the bell because his manager had a deal with the timekeeper who pulled the handle some thirty seconds before he should have. And Jim Corbett had him on the floor at Carson City and was winning in a cakewalk when Fitz tagged him with the solar plexus punch.”

    Well, what do we make of that thin argument? Jersey Joe Walcott was beating Rocky Marciano until Rocky was rude enough to land that smashing right in the thirteenth. Guys like Rocky and Fitz do have a habit of forgetting their manners.

    No matter. Choynski promptly changed tack and charged on to his own fight with lucky old Bob. “The record book shows that we boxed a five round draw in Boston. The date, I think, was June of ’94. I hit him with a short inside right to the mouth and he dropped like he was dead. I walked back to my corner knowing that he wasn’t going to get up. The round wasn’t a full minute old when all of a sudden the bell rang.

    “I spun round and, to my amazement, I saw Martin Julian, Bob’s manager, picking Fitz up. Police swarmed into the ring and their chief waved his arms over his head. That was the signal that the bout had been stopped. To this day, I still wonder if the fight would have been stopped if it were I, not Fitzsimmons, lying on the floor.”

    Choynski’s account implies that he knocked down Fitzsimmons in the fifth round of the bout and that the police stopped the fight shortly afterwards. According to Fitz, however, the knockdown occurred in the third round, and note that Bob gives Choynski every credit: “In the third round, he caught me with a left hook on the chin. I saw the blow coming, it was an overhand snaky looking thing.

    “I didn’t think it packed much steam, but when it struck my jaw I lost all sensation and my head filled with sparkling stars. I remember nothing more about the fight, although they told me later I just beat the count of ten and held my own for the remaining two rounds. Choynski and I never hit it off well together as friends, but he was the most devastating puncher I ever faced. The man was remarkable in every sense of the word.”

    The fight was long in the past by the time Choynski reminisced in 1943. Perhaps his memory had dimmed, perhaps it had become selective or perhaps the pent-up poison had distorted it. Whatever, the old man had to spit some blood and get it all out. The days were growing shorter.

    Source: https://www.*******.com/forums/boxing-forums/boxing-history/771082-great-joe-choynski-article
     
  2. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Great read. Thanks.

    Makes one wonder what the true core issue was between them.

    Fitz was one lucky SOB, wasn’t he? At least according to Choynski. Lol.

    Fitz stopped Ruhlin in 5 - not in 15.

    Perhaps Joe was confusing the Ruhlin vs Sharkey fight in which Gus stopped Sharkey in the 15th?? At any rate, older Choy was clearly misremembering.

    Side note: Perhaps the Choynski and Peter Jackson matches were Corbett’s best fights, holding him in the best light.
     
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  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Always take old boxers' tales with a hefty grain of salt.

    Still, interesting and entertaining. Thanks for posting.
     
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Utter senile BS. Fitz kod Ruhlin in6 rds beating him so badly he had to sleep at MSG on a cot as he was too ill to be moved, a Doctor stayed with him all night as he was lapsing in and out of consciousness the next day his manager took him home to recuperate .

    "Ruhlin collapsed in his corner and was not fully revived for so long a time that it was feared he had died. The fight was held under incredible heat. It was over 100F. outside the arena, as the city was caught up in one of the worst heat waves on record. Some 35 deaths were reported from heat stroke."

    In a post-fight interview at his hotel with a reporter from the Brooklyn Eagle, Fitz said, "...[Ruhlin] is a monstrous big fellow, but you know the old saying, 'The bigger they are, the further they have to fall.'..."

    According to the report in the Brooklyn Eagle, at one time in the fight Fitz actually stood up, with his hands down at his sides,while Ruhlin sent in left and right swings to the number of six to his unprotected face and jaw.


    Choynski v Fitz

    "Choynski was down and bloodied when the police stepped in and would likely have been knocked out had the fight continued. The bout was declared a draw by the referee due to a pre-fight agreement that the fight could only be won if a knockout was scored,"
     
  5. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

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    All you can say about this is that if it's true then Fitzsimmons didn't just have the timekeeper in his pocket, but the entire ringside press as well. By all accounts Choynski was a beaten man when the police stopped the fight in the fifth.

    https://ibb.co/M9G5gCJ
     
  6. META5

    META5 Active Member Full Member

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    Choynski was one of those guys - obviously impressive in his own right, but outside of a good read and insight into how unresolved anger and frustration can retell a narrative, this basically confirms that Fitz was the sh1t!
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2024
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  7. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT Full Member

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    Damn.

    I saw my err before submitting but still forgot to edit. Yeah, Fitz KO’d Ruhlin in 6 (not 5 as I wrote).

    I’m as bad as Choynski on the facts, lol.

    Personally, I cut Choynski some slack - he was old, in his final year of life and perhaps mentally affected by a career in boxing atop all the that - and he was trying to recall fights from a long time ago.

    Even if one wanted to purposely lie, you wouldn’t lie about such black and white details that could be so easily and concretely fact checked.

    Choy was clearly confused (and yes, bitter also) and the article itself basically narrates that fact.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    On a side note, he defended Tom Sharkey, against the allegation that he was a dirty fighter.
     
  9. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It was in the first Maher fight that Fitz was(allegedly) saved from a knockout by an early bell, not a Sharkey contest.
     
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  10. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's right, Ali once said he didn't know if he could beat Marciano, then later he said," a little slow short man like that getting to me is science fiction talk"
     
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