Joe Fraizer vs. Ken Norton

The winner of FOTC.

 

You kinda have to choose Joe, Norton could fight no doubt about it, but Frazier was relentless.

 

Apparently it was said that Joe used to get the better of the vast majority of his sparring sessions with Ken. But I don't have a source and who knows when these sessions took place or if Ken was very green at the time. Its valid to say that Norton folded against big punchers. But I'm not sure if Joe was the "type" of puncher or had the imposing size and strength needed to make Ken fight off the back foot. Both were proteges of Eddie Futch and knew each other better than any two fighters. It would certainly be an interesting contest to watch.

 

Because both fought under the same managerial umbrella and both were trained by Eddie Futch. They sparred together regularly and were great friends. Also, Norton's career was just taking off as Frazier's was heading downward.

 

Ken said in his book that it wasn't because they were friends, but the money wasn't right.

 

Norton, despite his athleticism, had a tendency to freeze and give up his mobility against punchers.

That wonky cross-arm defense was also particularly vulnerable to left hooks...so, head to head, I'd pick Joe to grind down Norton by the mid rounds.

Legacy wise, I would also favor Frazier as the greater fighter by a decent margin. He simply accomplished more.

 

Frazier was better by a fairly wide margin.

 

Norton did´nt have the punches to keep Frazier at bay.

 

Seemingly when Joe started taking his eye off the ball before the Foreman loss, Norton was jabbing his head off in sparring. However a determined Joe stops Norton imo. ****ey and Foreman were too powerful for Ken and so would Joe. Frazier battered Holmes in sparring apparently as well, broke his ribs.

 

Futch was an outstanding trainer who saw flaws in Ali's style. However neither Frazier or Norton beat Ali in his prime. Ali never had a prime because he was inactive due to the vietnam debacle. Ali pre exile was a much more effective fighter than the one after. When he returned he was slower and could not dance on his toes for 15 rounds to avoid contact. 1967 Ali beats Frazier pretty handily as he does to Norton

 

H2H both at their best I'll take Frazier, either by decision or late round stoppage. To beat a prime Frazier you either had to stay out of harms way while outboxing him or have the punch to halt his advance and/or stop him. Norton wouldn't be able to do either. He wasn't fleet of foot like Ali was and he didn't have the stopping power of Foreman. His style was troublesome against boxers but was susceptible against swarmers/punchers. I see Frazier eventually taking the play away from Ken and outworking him and possibly stopping him late.

 

They were good friends and had a lot of respect for each other. Sometimes Frazier got the best of Norton in the gym, sometimes Norton got the best of Frazier... both men mention this in their autobiographies.

Norton's best years were 1972-1978. During this stretch he went 17-4 (12) overall, 0-3 in HW World Title Fights (but he was proclaimed the WBC HW Champ in 1978 when L. Spinks refused to fight him), and 1-4 vs. Hall of Famers Ali, Foreman, and Holmes. Let's look at those losses first- he lost a 12 round SD to Ali in their rematch, he was stopped in the 2nd round by Foreman (no worse than Frazier's loss to Foreman), a close 15 round decision to Ali for the HW World Title (most people agree that Norton should have won), and a 15 round SD to Holmes (Norton lost the WBC HW belt). Long story short... in 3 out of those 4 losses a case can be made that Norton deserved the decision in those fights. Norton also beat Henry Clark KO9, Muhammad Ali W12 (he even broke Ali's jaw), Boone Kirkman KO7, Jerry Quarry KO5, Jose L. Garcia KO5 (avenging an earlier defeat), Ron Stander KO5, Larry Middleton KO10, Duane Bobick KO1, Lorenzo Zanon KO5, and Jimmy Young W15. He was 2 months shy of 35 when he lost to Holmes.

To be fair to Jimmy Young, their fight was very close. Young had a draw with Shavers that many felt could have went his way, 2 clear wins over Lyle, a BS loss to Ali, and a win over Foreman (he even dropped Foreman). A win over Young at that time was big.

Frazier vs. Norton, prime vs. prime... it would have been a great fight!

Sure, Frazier has to be favored, but they match up very well H2H.