There are a LOT of people who agree with you on that, and I can certainly understand why. Forgetting FOTC for a moment, watch the Joe Frazier of the Stander and Daniels fights, then watch the Frazier of the Ellis I fight. The Frazier of the Ellis fight was the skill level of a Berbick-era Tyson or Norton-era Foreman, no doubt in my mind. However... Joe looked like a 5 mg Valium version of himself in the post-FOTC fights. He wasn't the same fighter. He looked even slower and self-conscious in the Foreman fight... The weeks of hospitalization Joe required after the FOTC is a great indicator of how much that fight took out of him. He was never the same after, even the TiM only showed all-too-brief flashes of the fighter he was (the other fights looked perfunctory at best). Now, please understand I love Foreman more overall as a fighter, but I've watched those fights hundreds of times, and this is just what I got out of it.
Frazier stops Lyle in middle rounds. Lyle would do well in the first couple of rounds, then Joe would eat him alive.
It looked to me that Lyle was on the road to victory against Foreman as moments before the stoppage, he still had Foreman staggering. Then if you look closely, Lyle deeply inhales and suddenly holds on to the rope as if he's exhausted and then Foreman comes on and finishes him off. I think if Lyle could have lasted another round or 2, he may have turned the trick before Jimmy Young did.
Lyle can give him a good fight, he can even hurt him, but in 10 fights he loses 7 or 8, maybe even 9, he gets lucky and hurts Frazier in 1 outta 10 and wins it, that's it, so Frazier 90% of the time, the devastating Left gets in and bobs and weaves and pursuses Wilder to Vicotry with most likely a KO as that hook connects sooner than later.
50/50. The later in the 70's the better the chances for Lyle. Frazier didn't match up well vs punchers, he avoided them aside from Foreman,
Believe it or not, Frazier could very well have won a hard fought 12 round decision. with no knockout, or even a knockdown. battle of styles. course you would think Lyle has the Foreman "good big guy beats the good little guy" (reach) or other hand Frazier (Ali & Quarry scenario). Hard pick, good matchup.
Damn! Good question. Foreman beated Frazier, Lyle knocked Big George down more times and could win. Lyle belonged to that strict crew of very good punchers who in the 70s could have taken a title like Shavers but his power was not constant and his defense left something to be desired. Frazier was more steady. Think Frazier for KO maybe after the 5th round with one of his iconical left hook or for UD but Lyle would have had more than a chance to do it!
I like Ron, I really do; would have been a tough out in any era but, IMO, overrated on this forum. Give me a signature win for Lyle, outside of Shavers who put him on '***** street' at the end of the second with the big LH. I've never seen anyone so sloppy as George against Lyle. Lyle wouldn't KO him if they fought ten times. Prime George puts Lyle away quickly 10 times out of 10. Granted Ron was still a tad green when he lost to Quarry in early 73 but Jerry wasn't a 'devastating' puncher; he basically wore you down. Jerry, in an interview, said: "I saw his record and was scared...then I buckled his knees with a left hook in the first and knew he could be hurt!" IMO, even a post-Ali Frazier would have taken Lyle (with a bit of difficulty). Prime Joe? Lights out Ron! Maybe 3-5 rounds.
Prime Frazier ( Pre FOTC) smokes Lyle with little if any problems. But as some have already noted Frazier after FOTC was a different fighter. Maybe the beating he took from Ali took something out of him. Maybe winning the greatest fight, against his greatest rival, made him complacent, and took the competitive edge off. But Frazier prior to FOTC looked different than Frazier after FOTC. And it was noticable in the ring. Frazier after FOTC And after Foreman is a toss up against Lyle.
