Joe Frazier (1968) Vs Evander Holyfield (1990)?

Frazier's the better man. I'd take most good versions of him over Evander- Just watch him against Cooper and think of how bad he'd do against Joe.

 

The Cooper fight was a replacement for a replacement wasn't it? I don't think it was a bad performance in context. Bert was a 'live dog' in any fight...and if we are saying look how he did against Bert? Well, he stopped him, didn't he? Holyfield v Frazier is one of my favourite fights to pontificate over, but every time my head goes there I see Evander's hand raised

 

Prime Frazier is an absolute style nightmare for Holy. Frazier TKO 12.

Frazier, Holy, Tyson actually make up a triangle where Frazier is a bad style for Holy, Holy is a bad style for Tyson, and Tyson is a bad style for Frazier.

 

Bert was a replacement for Francesco Damiani, who Evander should've been well trained for regardless considering his good showings against everyone on his record up to that point- So that doesn't have much relevance, I don't think.

I do think that Bert's aptitude to be a "live dog" in any fight is a bit overrated. He could come in and look ferocious some of the time, and the other 90 percent of the time he'd end up getting pole axed. Stopped against Reggie Gross, drops a decision to Everett Martin, shut out against Carl Williams, quits against Nate Miller- Holyfield should've destroyed Cooper, but instead, he almost gets knocked out against him. And yes, he stopped him, but it certainly wasn't an impressive showing all around.

I think it's understandable to fall into the habit of thinking Holyfield was an even greater champ than he was (I know that I used to think so), but I just can't see him getting past Frazier- Who is some tens of times superior to Cooper.

 

Bang on, any comparison of how Evander did against Cooper is a false equivalence, which is kinda my point. It was one of Evanders worst performances but he still got the job done against a replacement that fought the fight of his life and landed a hail Mary, when vander would have been training for a totally different style of fighter in Daniani.

People always jump to a fighters worst fight to justify another beating them. We don't judge Frazier on his defeats to George? I always try to imagine the absolute unicorn version of both men and apply their best attributes against each other. This fight makes me salivate. I have always thought Evander's chin and physicality would pose Joe problems. He was accurate, hit consistently hard and is one of the few fighters in history to rival Joe's engine. I think the best version of Holy is a H2H nightmare for most heavyweights in history and I think he might weather many storms, as would Joe, and win a close but clear points decision. Both men would be battered and bruised. Maybe in a trilogy, 2-1 Evander?

 

This ,,Frazier by TKO, be a helluva fight for about 7or 8 rounds until Evander can't see because of all the smoke.

 

I always thought Holy tried to slug with Cooper in order to impress his hometown, I don't see him being so careless with Joe and I wouldn't judge that performance as an indicator to a Joe Frazier fight.

 

Both men would take AND give a lot of punishment. Two all time great warriors in stellar shape with absolutely no quit in them. I’m leaning towards Frazier to take a decision

 

If Holyfield mixes boxing and fighting at the right times, he wins, but if he only does one, he’ll lose.
Frazier stands a better chance than Tyson because he’s a better inside fighter than Tyson, Tyson’s game was to edge his way in, get his opponent to throw and catch the opponents as he’s closing distance, Holyfield just skipped that part and just let Tyson in, and his superior skill up close, knowing how to use the clinch etc allowed him to dictate it up close. Frazier was better than Tyson up close, he could put his head on your chest, push you off and get punches off, could let the opponent throw, weave them etc and time the opponent in the middle of their combination with devastating punches, mainly the left hook and most importantly, when things were competitive or not going his way, he never got demoralised unlike Tyson.
I think Holyfield uses the lead to measure Frazier on the outside then as Frazier commits, he looks to time him with the right, then as Frazier rolls, he follows up with the left uppercut and combinations in mid range, then nullifies Frazier’s return by clinching him.
He times Frazier on the way in, then follows up with the uppercut followed by maybe 2 more punches in mid range then clinches to nullify him, and Holyfield was strong enough to control him on the inside by clinching, and Holyfield gets more work off all in all because he doesn’t allow Frazier to work up close, but occasionally when Frazier looks to time Frazier and follow up, it goes wrong and Frazier clips him, and I do see Holyfield getting timed in mid range by Frazier’s left hook when Holyfield looks for the uppercut and maybe getting dropped, but I see him surviving and winning a decision.
I actually picked Norton to beat Holyfield, but the difference is because I think Norton would be the one handling Holyfield in the clinch.

 

Two of my all time favorites in an all time great fight. I don't think Frazier gets Evander down, and if he does, doesn't keep him there. I got Evander.

Holyfield is the more precise puncher, has the sturdier whiskers and could match Frazier's intensity and gas tank, plus has better tools at every range especially the long range and the 1-2. Holyfield may get clipped in a mid-range exchange from a looping shot as he had done in his career, but he would recover and fight on as he also did against harder punchers.

This would be a great fight, I think Holyfield being more physical, more technical and equally tough would decide it. Extend it to 15 rounds and I would consider Frazier's chances more because that creates more crazy exchanges, but would still favor Holyfield because he was a better boxer skillwise.

 

Then sure, I'll throw it out. There's other stuff here that makes it hard for Evander.

Although perfect Frankenstein versions of both fighters would make the fight more memorable to watch, the OP is talking about a very early heavyweight version of Evander. His durability was kind of lacking before Bowe II, and even after that fact, his chin is severely overrated. Yes, he braved the tides against strong punchers like Bowe, Moorer, Tyson, and Lewis, but then again, he got badly hurt against each and every one of them. I think Evander has a much more impressive heart than he does an impressive chin.

Holyfield could certainly punch accurately, but he wasn't strong enough to give Frazier issues. I think his counters will land occasionally, but they won't be enough to cause anything substantial in his favor.

Joe is just too strong and too good of a finisher for Evander to survive. Whereas he'd simply get hurt or dropped against other fighters, he'd get stopped against Frazier.

 

Thanks man, I still think the Holyfield cited beats the best version of Frazier. But, that's just my opinion and as someone smart once suggested, as a human, I contain multitudes...so, lots of room for error! Have a wonderful weekend man, peace and love, gbn x